Harriet Tubman's Life and Legacy

Scott: 00:00:14

Welcome to Talk With History.

Scott: 00:00:17

I'm your host, Scott, here with my wife and historian, Jen.

Jenn: 00:00:20

Hello.

Scott: 00:00:21

On this podcast, we give you insights to our history inspired world

Scott: 00:00:24

travels, YouTube channel journey, and examine history through deeper

Scott: 00:00:28

conversations with the curious, the explorers, and the history Today's

Scott: 00:00:40

episode is a special We're taking a deep dive into the life and legacy

Scott: 00:00:45

of Harriet Tubman, the iconic conductor of the Underground Railroad.

Scott: 00:00:51

We're

Scott: 00:00:51

heading straight to the source.

Scott: 00:00:53

We recently traveled to Dorchester County, Maryland, to visit the Harriet

Scott: 00:00:57

Tubman Underground Railroad National Historic Park, including the very spot

Scott: 00:01:01

where Harriet was born into slavery.

Scott: 00:01:05

In this episode, we'll explore her early years, the daring escapes that she led,

Scott: 00:01:10

and the network of brave individuals who risked everything to fight for freedom.

Scott: 00:01:15

We'll also take a virtual tour of the Harriet Tubman Underground Railroad

Scott: 00:01:19

Visitor Center, where powerful exhibits and artifacts shed new

Scott: 00:01:23

light on her incredible journey.

Scott: 00:01:25

So whether you're already familiar with Harriet Tubman or just

Scott: 00:01:28

learning about her for the first time, this episode is for you.

Scott: 00:01:31

Get ready to be inspired by the courage, resilience, and resolution

Scott: 00:01:36

of the Moses of her people.

Scott: 00:01:47

All right, Jen.

Scott: 00:01:48

so we didn't even realize it, but we visited The Harriet Tubman

Scott: 00:01:53

Underground Railroad Center.

Scott: 00:01:54

Visitor Center, the like on the, the anniversary of her death.

Scott: 00:01:59

March

Scott: 00:01:59

10th.

Jenn: 00:02:00

Yeah, we saw all these signs

Scott: 00:02:02

day.

Scott: 00:02:02

Yeah.

Scott: 00:02:03

Like we saw all these signs as we were driving up, we're like, oh no.

Scott: 00:02:06

Did we unintentionally come and visit like on a super busy day?

Scott: 00:02:10

And it was, we were actually there the day

Jenn: 00:02:11

day after.

Jenn: 00:02:15

day before Harriet Tubman

Scott: 00:02:16

like a Saturday,

Jenn: 00:02:17

which was a Saturday to commemorate her new stamp because there's a new

Jenn: 00:02:20

stamp coming out with her image on it.

Jenn: 00:02:22

And so we got there on a Sunday and we were lucky.

Jenn: 00:02:26

And so we got there on Harriet Tubman Day, which is the day she died.

Jenn: 00:02:30

And what's interesting about that is the day she died.

Jenn: 00:02:36

Quite possibly might be the day she was

Scott: 00:02:39

That was, that was very interesting.

Jenn: 00:02:41

So she dies March 10th, 1913, and she's born circa 1922.

Jenn: 00:02:47

And some researchers in the past, I'd say 10, 15 years found a ledger where

Jenn: 00:02:54

her enslaver had paid a midwife for the birth of a child from her mother.

Jenn: 00:03:01

And it was dated like March 15th.

Jenn: 00:03:05

And so people believe that she might have been born.

Jenn: 00:03:09

March

Scott: 00:03:09

Right around that

Jenn: 00:03:10

Wait, because he might've paid, probably paid her five days after.

Jenn: 00:03:13

So yeah, it's a, it's amazing.

Jenn: 00:03:15

That would be her 90th, her 91st birthday if she would've died right

Scott: 00:03:21

pretty incredible.

Scott: 00:03:22

Now, we went up there to make a video for us from Norfolk.

Scott: 00:03:25

It was about three and a half hours, but we got to drive up the eastern shore

Jenn: 00:03:30

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:03:30

So what's so, what's so unique about the area is this very waterway intense area.

Scott: 00:03:36

It's a beautiful

Jenn: 00:03:37

It's beautiful, but because of driving it doesn't

Jenn: 00:03:40

make it easy to drive and.

Jenn: 00:03:42

It's outside of Annapolis.

Jenn: 00:03:44

It's outside of DC.

Jenn: 00:03:46

It's on the other side of Maryland in that kind of watery island ish

Jenn: 00:03:52

looking part of the state where you're kind of like, what's over there?

Jenn: 00:03:56

And that is where she was born.

Jenn: 00:03:58

That's where she escapes enslavement for the first time.

Jenn: 00:04:01

That's where she goes back and rescues her family, and she understands that

Jenn: 00:04:06

waterway area so well, having been raised there, that she's very good

Jenn: 00:04:11

about navigating that and getting people out of enslavement through

Scott: 00:04:14

And I can see.

Scott: 00:04:15

In an area like that, the eastern shore of Maryland that has so many water

Scott: 00:04:20

inlets and it would, if you wouldn't, if you didn't know your way around

Scott: 00:04:24

there, you could get lost and have to double back and triple back and do,

Scott: 00:04:28

it would take you extra time just to travel from one location to another.

Scott: 00:04:32

If you were going to try to travel from, let's say Washington DC to somewhere

Scott: 00:04:35

on the eastern shore of Maryland.

Scott: 00:04:38

If you didn't know the way, or if you weren't, if you weren't

Scott: 00:04:40

traveling on one of the main roads, it would be incredibly difficult.

Jenn: 00:04:44

Oh, absolutely.

Jenn: 00:04:45

When you think of, let's for example, let's use John Wilkes Booth, when

Jenn: 00:04:47

he tries to escape and go just great across the waterway from

Jenn: 00:04:51

Maryland to Virginia, he doesn't.

Jenn: 00:04:54

They get lost in a waterway and just go westward back into Maryland.

Jenn: 00:04:59

They don't even cross into Virginia because they don't

Jenn: 00:05:01

understand the waterways there.

Jenn: 00:05:03

And a lot of those waterways where Harriet Tubman was born were

Jenn: 00:05:07

actually dug and made by enslaved

Scott: 00:05:10

Oh, I didn't realize that.

Jenn: 00:05:10

So her people made them.

Jenn: 00:05:12

And I talk about this as well.

Jenn: 00:05:14

Her father lived on a different plantation than her mother.

Jenn: 00:05:17

And a lot of their family was sold into different families, enslaving

Jenn: 00:05:23

families in the area, but they were allowed to visit each other.

Jenn: 00:05:27

And she became very well known.

Jenn: 00:05:30

Acquainted with the topography of the area and the waterways are there

Jenn: 00:05:34

because of that from a very young

Scott: 00:05:36

Now, that was one question I had in my, in my head

Scott: 00:05:40

when I was making the video.

Scott: 00:05:41

Was that kind of the norm of the time for enslavers to allow their

Scott: 00:05:46

enslaved to travel to go visit family?

Scott: 00:05:49

Or was it more like they were traveling with, the master of the household for

Scott: 00:05:53

business purposes, and that just, they happened to go get to see their families?

Jenn: 00:06:06

it depends, right?

Jenn: 00:06:07

Depends on how close the enslaver, the overseer holds tight to their people,

Jenn: 00:06:15

What kind of happens and what I've learned doing my research

Jenn: 00:06:17

is a lot of enslaved are Yeah.

Jenn: 00:06:19

sold out to other plantations, especially during working season, because you

Jenn: 00:06:24

need more of the hands than you actually have to do certain things.

Jenn: 00:06:27

So you help each other out.

Jenn: 00:06:29

And my slaves will come.

Jenn: 00:06:32

Plant your land and then your slaves come plant my land and those slaves will

Scott: 00:06:35

So that's a little bit of how that

Jenn: 00:06:37

So that's more how that worked.

Jenn: 00:06:39

Plus what I've also seen is on when crops weren't in the ground and you

Jenn: 00:06:46

could get a certificate of travel.

Jenn: 00:06:49

Remember that happened with that lynching site that I investigated?

Jenn: 00:06:53

That was during January because there would be no

Jenn: 00:06:56

crops in the ground wintertime.

Jenn: 00:06:57

So sometimes you might get a travel certificate to go see

Jenn: 00:07:02

your family if it was close by.

Jenn: 00:07:04

And sometimes enslavers did that because it kept you satisfied.

Jenn: 00:07:08

It kept you staying in your confinement.

Jenn: 00:07:11

It kept you, not trying to run away.

Jenn: 00:07:13

Plus family also tethers you.

Jenn: 00:07:16

to the area.

Jenn: 00:07:17

And if you do have people who run away, they're running away

Jenn: 00:07:21

from more than just enslavement.

Jenn: 00:07:22

They would be running away from their family.

Jenn: 00:07:24

And so to keep family and to keep a tie to your family there

Jenn: 00:07:29

is also, benefits the enslaver.

Jenn: 00:07:32

So to help do, facilitate seeing your family helps keep

Jenn: 00:07:37

people in that lifestyle.

Scott: 00:07:39

Yeah, and again, I just thought that was so interesting that Harriet

Scott: 00:07:42

Tubman being allowed to, to travel and to see, to know that area of

Scott: 00:07:47

Maryland so well, the Eastern shore,

Scott: 00:07:50

that is essentially what gave her the, some of the skills

Scott: 00:07:53

that she needed later on.

Jenn: 00:07:55

skills she needed later on.

Jenn: 00:08:00

checking traps

Jenn: 00:08:03

along the shoreline for this certain type of like a, like a mink rat and its fur was

Jenn: 00:08:10

better in the winter, winter fur, right?

Jenn: 00:08:13

And so as a young girl, she could get into these waterways and check these

Jenn: 00:08:17

traps for the fur traders, and it was very hard labor for a child, but because she's

Jenn: 00:08:23

enslaved they use her labor to do that.

Jenn: 00:08:25

So it's another way that she gained an understanding of all of these

Jenn: 00:08:30

waterways because she's checking these traps as a young girl.

Jenn: 00:08:33

So it, Again, one of these horrible things that she has to do as a young child

Jenn: 00:08:41

being enslaved, but will benefit her as a conductor on the Underground Railroad.

Scott: 00:08:46

Yeah.

Scott: 00:08:47

So now let's, let's step back a little bit.

Scott: 00:08:49

We we, we jumped in there because she's such an interesting character and she's

Scott: 00:08:52

done some incredible, incredible things.

Scott: 00:08:54

But, so she was born in, you said 1822.

Jenn: 00:09:01

1822, she's

Jenn: 00:09:02

born

Jenn: 00:09:02

Araminta, Araminta Ross.

Scott: 00:09:05

they called her

Scott: 00:09:06

Minty.

Scott: 00:09:06

They

Jenn: 00:09:06

call her Minty as she names herself Harriet Tubman.

Jenn: 00:09:10

That's the name she wants to give herself because she

Jenn: 00:09:12

doesn't want her enslaved name.

Jenn: 00:09:15

And she's born to enslaved parents, her mother, Harriet, who they

Jenn: 00:09:18

call Rit Green and Ben Ross.

Jenn: 00:09:20

And Rit was enslaved by the Brodess family.

Jenn: 00:09:23

And later her son, Edward.

Jenn: 00:09:25

That's where the marker is.

Jenn: 00:09:27

That's where we stop.

Jenn: 00:09:28

That's where they say is the birthplace of Harriet Tubman.

Jenn: 00:09:30

She's not quite born there.

Jenn: 00:09:32

She's born more when you go to the business center and you cross

Jenn: 00:09:35

the bridge to go see the marker.

Jenn: 00:09:37

She's born more where that bridge area is where the waterway is.

Jenn: 00:09:40

But that's where her marker is.

Jenn: 00:09:42

Harriet Tubman thought her birth year was 1825 and her death certificate.

Jenn: 00:09:48

It lists 1815 her gravestone lists 1820, but again,

Jenn: 00:09:55

historians have found 1822 in the

Scott: 00:09:58

the record

Jenn: 00:09:59

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:09:59

In the record.

Jenn: 00:10:00

That was found, in 2004.

Jenn: 00:10:02

The visitor center is amazing.

Jenn: 00:10:04

It's free.

Jenn: 00:10:05

It's run by the National Park Service.

Jenn: 00:10:07

We had got there in On a Sunday in March, which is Women's History Month.

Jenn: 00:10:12

So it was great to go there at that time But I just want people

Jenn: 00:10:15

to know it's closed on Mondays.

Scott: 00:10:17

So it's only

Jenn: 00:10:18

So it's only open Tuesday through Sunday So if you're listening

Jenn: 00:10:20

to this, it's closed on Mondays.

Jenn: 00:10:22

Don't be like me going to Dr.

Jenn: 00:10:24

Mudd's house Coming to a locked

Scott: 00:10:26

And, and definitely don't, don't drive there.

Scott: 00:10:29

If you're too low on gas, you make sure you get gas, a decent ways before you get

Scott: 00:10:34

there because Eastern shore, it's great.

Scott: 00:10:36

There's, there's plenty of kind of services on the drive out there,

Scott: 00:10:40

but it's not a main, it's not the

Scott: 00:10:42

95.

Scott: 00:10:43

Going between Richmond and D.

Scott: 00:10:44

C.,

Jenn: 00:10:45

expensive.

Scott: 00:10:46

it's a little more expensive and those gas stations get a little

Scott: 00:10:49

bit more spread out, and then when you're driving around, like when we

Scott: 00:10:52

were driving around from the Visitor Center over to the marker, you're

Scott: 00:10:55

just driving some side country roads.

Jenn: 00:10:57

Yeah, exactly.

Jenn: 00:10:58

It's open 10 a.

Jenn: 00:10:59

m.

Jenn: 00:11:00

to 4 p.

Jenn: 00:11:00

m.

Jenn: 00:11:00

and the address is 4068 Golden Hill Road in Church Creek, Maryland.

Jenn: 00:11:07

So you're in that, like you said, rural Maryland area and

Jenn: 00:11:13

the National Park Visitor Center It's a really great facility.

Jenn: 00:11:18

It has a great movie that you can watch there.

Jenn: 00:11:20

It really talks you through her life, has a lot of things that kind of show

Jenn: 00:11:23

you what built her and changed her life.

Jenn: 00:11:28

And it shows you more kind of hands on exhibits.

Jenn: 00:11:33

But it was really a neat place to go, especially for our children to.

Jenn: 00:11:37

I think it's safe for kids.

Jenn: 00:11:39

I'm safe.

Jenn: 00:11:40

I mean, it's not too much for them.

Scott: 00:11:42

yeah.

Scott: 00:11:42

No.

Scott: 00:11:43

It's super kid

Jenn: 00:11:43

Yeah,

Jenn: 00:11:44

super kid

Scott: 00:11:44

And even one of the things that I actually really appreciated, because

Scott: 00:11:47

they talked, they go a lot of kind of explaining her family history and kind

Scott: 00:11:50

of all her family figures, but they, they, they weren't afraid to emphasize

Scott: 00:11:54

her youth when she got injured, when she got hit in the head by that weight.

Jenn: 00:11:59

So we actually go there.

Jenn: 00:12:00

That was very important to me.

Jenn: 00:12:01

I, that's another place that you can go that is, is there waiting for you.

Jenn: 00:12:05

It's called the Bucktown village store and it's at 4303 Bucktown

Jenn: 00:12:10

road in Bucktown, Maryland.

Jenn: 00:12:11

Easy.

Jenn: 00:12:12

You just really got to remember one

Scott: 00:12:13

word.

Scott: 00:12:14

Bucktown

Jenn: 00:12:15

Bucktown, because it's like Bucktown Village Store,

Jenn: 00:12:18

Bucktown Road, Bucktown, Maryland.

Jenn: 00:12:19

So this is the store.

Jenn: 00:12:21

It's really at the end of the road from where the Brodess

Jenn: 00:12:24

plantation was, where her marker

Scott: 00:12:25

about a mile from the

Jenn: 00:12:26

So it's very easy to find.

Jenn: 00:12:28

It's at the T in the road.

Jenn: 00:12:29

It's the store right at the end of the T.

Jenn: 00:12:31

And it's a little yellow store.

Jenn: 00:12:34

She was there in 1835.

Jenn: 00:12:38

And she was, who knows, I think she was there, probably buying or purchasing

Jenn: 00:12:42

things for her, for the for her.

Jenn: 00:12:44

enslaver and another boy had run away from his plantation and his

Jenn: 00:12:50

overseer had come into the store to get him, to catch him basically.

Jenn: 00:12:55

And he was trying to grab this boy and he threw a two pound weight at

Jenn: 00:13:00

the boy to hit him with the two pound weight and it ended up missing the

Jenn: 00:13:04

boy but hitting Harriet in the head.

Jenn: 00:13:06

Now a two pound weight, They use these kinds of weights and measures on the

Jenn: 00:13:10

table when you're buying things, because you're going to buy two pounds of

Jenn: 00:13:13

flour or two

Scott: 00:13:14

they actually, in the visitor center, they show you an example.

Scott: 00:13:16

And it's, it's a good size.

Scott: 00:13:18

It's, think of one of those skinny Coke cans,

Scott: 00:13:21

the little small ones about that

Jenn: 00:13:22

solid

Scott: 00:13:23

solid I mean, it's two pounds in that, in a tiny little size.

Scott: 00:13:27

You, if you're throwing that at someone, it's going to do damage.

Jenn: 00:13:29

So when you're like, well, how did he have a two pound weights?

Jenn: 00:13:31

Because that's how they, if you're buying two pounds of flour, two pounds

Jenn: 00:13:34

of sugar, they'll put that on one side of the weight like a measure.

Jenn: 00:13:38

And then they put the, whatever you're buying on the other side.

Jenn: 00:13:40

So, you have bought two pounds.

Jenn: 00:13:42

So that's what he grabs off the counter to fling at this.

Jenn: 00:13:45

This kid, like how terrible that fling this two pound weight, this kid misses

Jenn: 00:13:48

the kid hits Harriet right in the head and it busts her skull and she's bleeding

Jenn: 00:13:55

and they take her back to the plantation.

Jenn: 00:13:57

They basically have to carry her back.

Jenn: 00:13:59

She lays in a bed for two days and eventually they just

Jenn: 00:14:01

start making her work again.

Jenn: 00:14:03

But it's that moment that she starts to.

Jenn: 00:14:09

have visions of God, like that's when she starts to hear

Jenn: 00:14:13

God speaking directly to her.

Jenn: 00:14:15

And, you can call it what you will, whatever's happening.

Jenn: 00:14:20

She is having seizures now start happening to her as well.

Jenn: 00:14:23

But this is what really inspires her to start this whole freedom

Jenn: 00:14:29

campaign and to really feel, I guess, empowered to do all of these

Jenn: 00:14:35

things she's going to do in her life.

Jenn: 00:14:37

She is more than just an underground railroad conductor.

Jenn: 00:14:41

She's going to be a spy for the civil war.

Jenn: 00:14:44

She's going to become a nurse.

Jenn: 00:14:46

She's going to lead a military militia during the Civil War.

Jenn: 00:14:50

And her belief in herself to accomplish all these things is because she believes

Jenn: 00:14:54

the Lord is speaking directly to her.

Jenn: 00:14:57

So I think that's just so phenomenal.

Jenn: 00:15:00

And to be at that store on that porch where that happened to her.

Jenn: 00:15:05

is, is just really amazing and powerful for this heroine of American history.

Jenn: 00:15:09

So it's there for you.

Jenn: 00:15:10

If you want to go, those places for, for us were very important to visit.

Jenn: 00:15:14

So the visitor center, the marker, and then the store.

Scott: 00:15:24

Yeah, and it was amazing to me One of the things in, in, in the entryway to

Scott: 00:15:29

the visitor center is they have a, a small bust of, of Harriet and it, it doesn't

Scott: 00:15:35

look like too much, but as I was walking on my way out, one of the, the national

Scott: 00:15:39

park guides, the Rangers said, Hey, what's significant about Harriet Tubman?

Scott: 00:15:44

About that bust.

Scott: 00:15:45

I it just looks like a bus.

Scott: 00:15:46

He's well, it's, it's five feet high.

Scott: 00:15:48

And that's how tall she was.

Scott: 00:15:50

They said she was only five feet tall.

Scott: 00:15:52

So I went over there and standing next to it, right?

Scott: 00:15:54

And five feet tall is, is not very tall for this woman who did some

Scott: 00:15:58

incredible things throughout her life.

Jenn: 00:16:02

And I think that was great too for our kids to see that.

Jenn: 00:16:06

So Again, what I appreciate about Harriet Tubman is she's using these

Jenn: 00:16:11

things that really would be a hindrance that we would think in her favor.

Jenn: 00:16:17

And that is why she's such a great spy during the Civil War is

Jenn: 00:16:21

because no one's paying attention to the short, small black woman.

Jenn: 00:16:29

She's like the bottom of the totem pole that people think a knows anything or can

Jenn: 00:16:34

be of any value or to be of any threat.

Jenn: 00:16:37

So.

Jenn: 00:16:38

She's the perfect person to gather information, to lead a scouting party,

Jenn: 00:16:43

to lead the Underground Railroad because she's the one you're not looking for.

Jenn: 00:16:47

She's not even on your radar.

Jenn: 00:16:49

Harry Tubman will, she, She will see her sister sold away from her and she will

Jenn: 00:16:57

see, her enslaver dies and then she's kind of she's She's sold away The woman becomes

Jenn: 00:17:06

the owner of the plantation and she can't afford to make ends meet So she starts

Jenn: 00:17:11

to sell her enslaved because they're

Scott: 00:17:13

which is some of harriet's

Jenn: 00:17:14

yeah resources, right?

Jenn: 00:17:15

And so so Harriet's done She's like I'm done with this.

Jenn: 00:17:19

That's it.

Jenn: 00:17:19

And she just walks basically just walks away one day I think that's

Jenn: 00:17:23

And she just sings this song and she walks away and she takes her brothers with her.

Jenn: 00:18:02

And they put out an ad for her in the paper.

Jenn: 00:18:06

This is 1849.

Jenn: 00:18:07

So this is right before the Fugitive Slave Act comes out.

Jenn: 00:18:11

And the Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 really starts to separate the country because

Jenn: 00:18:16

it becomes a law that if you don't.

Jenn: 00:18:20

You might not be an enslaver in, in the northern states or even in the

Jenn: 00:18:23

southern states, if you don't help catch runaway slaves or you do anything to

Jenn: 00:18:28

hinder the capture of runaway slaves, you could help be held liable by

Jenn: 00:18:31

the law, which means they could take your property and put you in jail.

Jenn: 00:18:37

And so people get very mad about that.

Jenn: 00:18:38

Like, how can you put that onus on me if it's not something that I agree with?

Scott: 00:18:43

a horrible law.

Jenn: 00:18:44

Why should I?

Jenn: 00:18:45

So this is when people really dig in their heels and the Underground

Jenn: 00:18:48

Railroad really gets more solidified.

Jenn: 00:18:55

So what is the Underground Railroad?

Jenn: 00:18:56

I think I tried to explain it in the video, but I don't

Jenn: 00:18:59

do a very good job of it.

Jenn: 00:19:00

So this Underground Railroad is basically a underground network of

Jenn: 00:19:04

people who help enslaved And it starts pretty early, I'd say about 1830.

Jenn: 00:19:12

And probably even before that, but it gets more solidified in 1850,

Jenn: 00:19:15

where it really is a network, and it's not underground, but it's

Jenn: 00:19:20

underground because you can't see it.

Jenn: 00:19:22

Like railroad tracks, you can see.

Jenn: 00:19:24

This you can't see.

Jenn: 00:19:26

People just know it.

Jenn: 00:19:27

People who conduct themselves know where these safe haven houses are.

Jenn: 00:19:31

Or these places that you can hide out and so they can know

Jenn: 00:19:34

the routes to get to them.

Jenn: 00:19:36

And I've talked before, there was an underground railroad stop in Memphis,

Jenn: 00:19:40

and it's, it's identifier was two trees that don't lose their leaves.

Jenn: 00:19:44

And so they had two big magnolia trees in their front yard and

Jenn: 00:19:47

magnolias don't lose their leaves.

Jenn: 00:19:48

And so even through the winter, they would have these two trees.

Jenn: 00:19:51

So that would be a way to identify that house for the

Jenn: 00:19:54

Underground Railroad in Memphis.

Jenn: 00:19:56

Plus, they're on the outskirts of Memphis and they were livestock stock owners.

Jenn: 00:20:00

So lots of smells coming from the area would keep people away.

Jenn: 00:20:04

So that was a perfect stop for the Underground Railroad.

Jenn: 00:20:07

Most of the time, Underground Railroad would also have, think of Anne Frank

Jenn: 00:20:11

hiding away during the Holocaust, hidden bookcases, hidden basements,

Jenn: 00:20:18

hidden rooms where you, if somebody was to come and say, I saw black,

Jenn: 00:20:23

black enslaved running by here.

Jenn: 00:20:26

Can we search your house?

Jenn: 00:20:27

Sure.

Jenn: 00:20:27

Because you have them hidden away in a secret room.

Jenn: 00:20:30

And so that was also very well known with the underground railroad was these secret

Jenn: 00:20:34

rooms and places that people could be in the house and collect resources, rests.

Jenn: 00:20:40

As they make their way, and most ens slaves are making their

Jenn: 00:20:43

way into the Northern states.

Jenn: 00:20:45

But with the Fugitive Slave Act, it didn't stop enslavers from coming

Jenn: 00:20:49

for you in those northern states.

Jenn: 00:20:51

So some of them went even further on into

Scott: 00:20:53

Yeah, and I thought it was, it was neat, again, the Visitor

Scott: 00:20:56

Center does a really good job of kind of showing the whole.

Scott: 00:20:59

Span of early Harriet Tubman through the civil war and the underground railroad.

Scott: 00:21:04

And then.

Scott: 00:21:05

After the Civil War, it in a bit of her, her later life.

Scott: 00:21:09

But showing the maps, and some of the, the known paths of the Underground

Scott: 00:21:13

Railroad were, were pretty expansive, and going to the big cities and then, then

Scott: 00:21:18

making a little bit more of a beeline for, for North up into, up into Canada.

Jenn: 00:21:23

It says here that she she escaped for the

Jenn: 00:21:25

first time, September 17th, 1849.

Jenn: 00:21:28

If she's born 1822, she's 27 years old when she's making her first escape.

Jenn: 00:21:33

And then she comes back a couple more times to get the rest of

Jenn: 00:21:36

her family 70 members in all.

Jenn: 00:21:39

And because she knows that area so well, she's able to come back and

Jenn: 00:21:42

get them and get her family members because that's the, that's the tie.

Jenn: 00:21:46

That's the tether to the area in to freedom.

Jenn: 00:21:49

But then when the civil war breaks out.

Jenn: 00:21:53

And she's going further down into the south to help get enslaved out

Jenn: 00:21:58

of their predicaments and their enslavements in the southern states.

Jenn: 00:22:03

During the

Scott: 00:22:04

Yeah.

Scott: 00:22:04

much further south

Jenn: 00:22:05

much further south of Maryland, and that's when she works with the military

Jenn: 00:22:09

And that's when she starts to become a spy because she's given this pass that

Jenn: 00:22:14

kind of gets her to move between the north and the south lines Because she

Jenn: 00:22:20

can portray someone who isn't who isn't

Scott: 00:22:22

Yeah, that's how she passes.

Jenn: 00:22:23

and that's how she's passing She's passing back and forth between

Jenn: 00:22:26

these lines and she's able to get people through and again Nobody's Noticing her

Scott: 00:22:32

she, she's five feet tall, she's female and back then she's,

Scott: 00:22:36

she's African American, so she's all the things that a soldier would

Scott: 00:22:40

basically

Scott: 00:22:41

immediately

Scott: 00:22:41

dismiss.

Jenn: 00:22:43

So from 1851 to 1862, she returned repeatedly to Maryland.

Jenn: 00:22:47

Again, rescuing some 70 slaves in about 13 different expeditions.

Scott: 00:22:53

And I thought one of the things that was was really interesting was when

Scott: 00:22:57

she led that military, I don't know, was an expedition or kind of mission and,

Scott: 00:23:03

I mean, they, they set free hundreds of people and, dismantled Confederate

Scott: 00:23:08

this, that, and the other, and, took down some plantations, I mean, she helped

Scott: 00:23:13

lead a pretty serious military effort.

Jenn: 00:23:22

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:23:22

So that was in 1863 and it's called the Combahee River Raid.

Jenn: 00:23:29

So she used her knowledge of covert travel around the port

Jenn: 00:23:33

royal area of South Carolina, and she was down in that area and.

Jenn: 00:23:39

She guided three steamboats with black soldiers under Montgomery's

Jenn: 00:23:42

command past the mines on the Combahee River to assault several plantations.

Jenn: 00:23:48

Once ashore, the Union troops set fire to the plantations,

Jenn: 00:23:52

destroying their infrastructure.

Jenn: 00:23:54

And forewarned by the raid by Tetman's spy network, enslaved people throughout

Jenn: 00:23:58

the area heard the steamboat whistles and understood they were being liberated.

Jenn: 00:24:01

So she had gone, she had made sure they knew what was going

Jenn: 00:24:04

to happen before it happened.

Jenn: 00:24:05

And then she came down there and led these men of the, I think it

Jenn: 00:24:09

was the 15th South Carolina and then to show them where to go.

Jenn: 00:24:15

And then she helped liberate those people out of there.

Jenn: 00:24:18

So she watched as those fleeing slavery stampeded towards the boats.

Jenn: 00:24:22

She later disguised the scene as some barrages.

Jenn: 00:24:24

kind of chaos.

Jenn: 00:24:25

But as the confederate troops erased the scene that the steamboats took off

Jenn: 00:24:29

with more than 750 formerly enslaved

Scott: 00:24:32

That's amazing.

Jenn: 00:24:33

It's amazing.

Jenn: 00:24:34

What she did was really

Jenn: 00:24:37

groundbreaking.

Jenn: 00:24:38

And more than a hundred of those newly free men, black

Jenn: 00:24:43

men, joined the Union Army.

Scott: 00:24:45

Yeah, I saw that.

Scott: 00:24:46

Yeah, yeah, you, you mentioned that.

Scott: 00:24:47

I don't know if that made the, the video cut, but you said that,

Scott: 00:24:50

I mean, they, they escaped, and then they joined right back up to

Jenn: 00:24:53

joined way back up to fight.

Jenn: 00:24:54

So this is mid war, right?

Jenn: 00:24:56

This is June, 1863.

Jenn: 00:24:58

And reports of her involvement in the raid led to people calling her General Tubman.

Scott: 00:25:03

Oh,

Jenn: 00:25:04

And I think John Brown had called her that previously.

Jenn: 00:25:07

So people joined in on that, but she's widely regarded as

Jenn: 00:25:10

the first woman to lead U.

Jenn: 00:25:11

S.

Jenn: 00:25:11

troops in an armed assault.

Jenn: 00:25:13

And that, for me, was pretty just monumentous and important.

Jenn: 00:25:18

That's why we left the flag there for her, because what she did for

Jenn: 00:25:21

American military, but also in American history, she really was

Jenn: 00:25:25

a groundbreaking, changing woman.

Jenn: 00:25:27

And

Jenn: 00:25:29

think it should be celebrated.

Scott: 00:25:30

thought it was so neat, too, that she's born in 1822, died in Yes.

Scott: 00:25:36

And that's quite a, we've talked about a couple of historical figures that have

Scott: 00:25:40

been born in that similar era, and talk about a period of true drastic change

Scott: 00:25:49

over the course of 90 years, right?

Scott: 00:25:52

Think about after the turn of the century, right?

Scott: 00:25:55

We're, we're looking at world's fairs now and we're looking at

Scott: 00:26:00

the, she was at the, the front end of the suffrage movement, right?

Scott: 00:26:04

When she was in her much later years, it was pretty, I mean, think

Scott: 00:26:07

about where she came from and as she passed where the country was.

Jenn: 00:26:12

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:26:12

I mean she really did.

Jenn: 00:26:15

take her agency upon herself and change her life.

Jenn: 00:26:19

And in the interim she changed anyone's life.

Jenn: 00:26:21

She really came in contact with as well.

Jenn: 00:26:24

I mean, I really do think she is a Renaissance woman.

Jenn: 00:26:26

She did what needed to be done in pretty much every instance.

Jenn: 00:26:29

She conducted an underground railroad that needs to be done.

Jenn: 00:26:32

Spy for the civil war that needs to be done.

Jenn: 00:26:34

She led a militia because that's what needed to be done.

Jenn: 00:26:36

And And we know her at Fort Monroe nursing soldiers soldiers and

Jenn: 00:26:42

formerly enslaved that were there because it needed to be done.

Jenn: 00:26:45

And then when she gets, she eventually will end up in upstate New York and

Jenn: 00:26:50

she is part of the suffrage movement because that is the area where the

Jenn: 00:26:53

suffrage movement really gets a hold and it's what needs to be done.

Jenn: 00:26:58

So she starts, giving talks and giving her experience.

Jenn: 00:27:01

They're putting the face behind an African American woman as

Jenn: 00:27:05

part of the suffrage movement.

Jenn: 00:27:06

So I just feel like to go where it all started and to be there and

Jenn: 00:27:12

to be in the space, which is very important to us, and to, to honor

Jenn: 00:27:16

her and it just was an amazing place to visit for Walk with History.

Jenn: 00:27:22

I think it's an important place to, to go to and I just think she's a

Jenn: 00:27:26

woman that deserves to be celebrated.

Scott: 00:27:28

she's a woman that deserves to be celebrated.

Scott: 00:27:35

We, we made a specific effort to drive almost four hours to

Scott: 00:27:39

get there and it was worth every minute It was absolutely worth it.

Scott: 00:27:44

Even if this isn't your kind of typical foray into what you're doing

Scott: 00:27:48

on the weekends, I would recommend this to someone because it really

Scott: 00:27:52

was powerful kind of learning about her story and learning about Where

Scott: 00:27:57

she came from, what she did, and the impact that she had, had on history.

Scott: 00:28:06

Well folks, that brings us to the end of our journey through the

Scott: 00:28:09

life and legacy of Harriet Tubman.

Scott: 00:28:11

I hope you found it as inspiring as we Standing in Harriet's birthplace and

Scott: 00:28:17

exploring the museum truly emphasized the incredible strength and bravery it took

Scott: 00:28:21

for her to fight for freedom, not just for herself, but for countless others.

Scott: 00:28:26

Her story is a powerful reminder that even in the face of immense

Scott: 00:28:29

adversity, A human spirit can persevere.

Scott: 00:28:33

If you'd like to learn more about Harriet Tubman and the Underground

Scott: 00:28:36

Railroad, we've included some resources in the show notes for this episode.

Scott: 00:28:39

Thank you for joining us on Talk With History.

Scott: 00:28:41

As always, if you enjoyed this episode, please consider

Scott: 00:28:44

subscribing, giving us a review.

Scott: 00:28:47

It really helps us grow and continue to share these important stories.

Scott: 00:28:51

And remember, we rely on you, our community, to grow, and we

Scott: 00:28:54

appreciate you all every day.

Scott: 00:28:57

We'll talk to you next time.

Jenn: 00:28:58

Thank you.