Honoring Marines buried at Arlington National Cemetery

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November 10th, 1775, Tun Tavern in Philadelphia, which is always a

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joke, that of course the Marine Corps would be established in a bar, right?

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Yeah.

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That's classic.

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Welcome to Talk With History.

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I am your host, Scott, here with my wife and historian, Jen.

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On this podcast, we give you insights to our history inspired world travels,

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YouTube channel journey, and examine history through deeper conversations

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with the curious, the explorers, and the history lovers out there.

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Jenn, we're back.

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As we record this, this is our first podcast after the Christmas break.

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We've taken a bit of a break over the holidays, which we try to do every

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Yes, everyone should know Scott and I are the parents of three children

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who need the magic of Christmas, so

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and we're doing this kind of a third full time job while you're

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writing and I'm working doing active duty Navy stuff and all the fun stuff.

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So while we've been on holiday break, I can tell you we have

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still kept ourselves busy.

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So as a bit of a teaser to some of our larger efforts that we'll talk

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about in the coming weeks and months we just released a history t shirt.

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with a nod to Benjamin Franklin.

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So his Join or Die political cartoon is, is famous even today.

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Picture the, the kind of snake kind of cut up with the different states

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labels just below it, each section.

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So it was published in May of 1754 and it was his call to

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the colonies to stay united.

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So we just released our new History or Die t shirt.

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So that's History or Die, which is a nod to that call of unification.

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We want to bring.

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Some creators together to help put out good history quality content We have a

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history dye t shirts live over and walk on the walk with history gift shop right

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now And they're already our most popular t shirt that we've created so you can

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feel free to check it out over at walk with history gift shop dot com that's walk

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with history gift shop com and speaking of those who already bought a shirt

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and donated towards our efforts today We wanted to give a shout out to Nancy

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Arnold Brett Eder and Jennifer Thomas.

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They had the amazing presence of mind to grab our new shirt first, but

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they also donated during checkout.

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We actually add that as an option because we don't really

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make money off the t shirts.

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We might make a dollar or two.

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Because I try to keep the prices as low as I possibly can.

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So thank you so much guys.

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Nancy is actually someone we met through our online community.

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Brett is an old family friend and Jen Thomas is a fellow Navy pilot vet that

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flew with my Jen way back in the day.

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So thank you all guys so much for, for donating to our efforts.

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It really does help because none of the stuff that we are

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doing is necessarily free.

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And you guys are kind of.

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Helping us move along.

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So we really do appreciate the support.

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Yes, and if you think of the shirt the political cartoon said join

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or die, originally we replaced join with history and it is really a foundational.

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Belief of what we do that to really live a full life and to understand

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where we're going in the future You really have to understand the past

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Yeah.

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And there's a whole lot of thoughts that I have around kind

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of that history or die phrase.

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And we'll talk about that a little bit more in the future.

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Today we embark on a poignant journey.

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Through hallowed grounds that bear witness to the legacy of some of the United

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States Marine Corps most revered heroes.

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We'll be taking you on a tour through the final resting places of legendary

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astronauts, iconic drill instructors, and symbols of courage and sacrifice

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immortalized at the Iwo Jima Memorial.

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As we walk the sacred grounds and stand before these hallowed graves, we'll

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delve into the stories etched in stone.

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Stories that transcend time and continue to inspire generations.

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Together, let's pay homage to these extraordinary individuals who

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exemplify the Marine Corps values of honor, courage, and commitment.

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So, Jen, where were we that we're going to talk about during

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this Talk with History episode?

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Honestly in my opinion and yours too babe We were at the only place you

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probably should be on Veterans Day and that was Arlington National Cemetery

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in Washington DC Or in Arlington, Virginia people will correct me.

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It's not actually in Washington DC.

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It's in Arlington, Virginia right across the Potomac but It was

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just important for us to go there.

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We brought the kids there and we wanted to honor some Marines buried

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in Arlington for Veterans Day and it's so close to Marine Corps birthday.

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It's the day after the Marine Corps birthday.

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The Marine Corps birthday is November 10th and so the Marines were actually

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buried at Arlington, were actually celebrated, and they all had Marine

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Corps flags in front of their tombstones.

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So, we actually, we drove up.

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We live a couple hours away.

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Drove up to Arlington on Veterans Day.

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We were there on the actual day.

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I think it was a Saturday.

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And so we got up there and there was actually a little bit more people

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there than than we were normally used to because we've been to

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Arlington a fair amount of times.

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And not only for Veterans Day.

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And we'll talk a little bit more about kind of the people we saw throughout

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Arlington while we were there, but also that the president was there.

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Sure.

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And we were not aware that President Biden was going to be there.

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So we were rerouted.

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And in that reroute, so we, and we'll talk about this when we first get

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into Arlington, we have been there before, many times, if you know us and

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know this channel, and we, The first grave we visited was Gunnery Sgt.

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Ermey, who's the actor, and his grave is in one of the newer locations

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way off to the right hand side.

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So you really have to go there first or last and it's a long walk to get there.

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We don't have car access and so We went there first without even thinking so much

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about what was going on and so coming back from his grave We weren't allowed to

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Walk by the tomb of the unknown because that's where the ceremony was happening

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So we actually ended up walking behind the tomb of the unknown about around the

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back side of Arlington National Cemetery And we came across the Confederate circle

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something we had heard about and read about but never Visited before and it

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I really could tell as we walked upon it that of what it was I was like, oh,

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this is the Confederate circle and I thought to myself, I should make a video.

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We knew nothing about what was happening with the monument on

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the slate to be removed the end of December 2023 . We had no idea about

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Yeah.

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So, and so to kind of set the stage there, so we had gone over and visited

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Gunny Ermey and because President Biden was doing a presentation in the Tomb of

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the Unknown Soldier, which is kind of in the center of Arlington, if you've

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ever been there, it's kind of at the top of this little hill, hilly area We'd

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gone, gone to see Gunny Ermey, right?

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And if you, if you're not familiar with his name, think of Full Metal Jacket.

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And we're going to give him more.

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Private Pyle.

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He's the voice of kind of the, the army soldiers and toy story, famous actor.

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And going over, we went again, we kind of walked around the Tomb of

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the Unknown as we were visiting other Marines that we'll talk about.

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And you said, Oh, cool.

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Look, here's the, here's Confederate circle.

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And just kind of unexpectedly,

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So there was a naming commission and Congress created them in 2020 providing

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suggestions, scrubbing Confederate names or other symbols from the U.

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S.

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military bases, property, things along that nature.

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And under the law, the Pentagon is required to implement

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those recommendations.

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And so this memorial of in the confederate circle.

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So in the confederate circle, just so you know, it's section 16.

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So it's a low number.

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So think of an original, one of the original sections is 400 confederate

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soldiers buried in a circle.

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And this monument is kind of put up in the middle of them.

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And it was erected in 1914 and funded from the daughters of the confederacy.

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And it It promotes the lost cause narrative or at least that's what the

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Naming Commission that's what they found that through their research that it

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supported the lost cause narrative and they, they believe it, it's about that,

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that romanticization of the Confederacy fighting to uphold Southern values while

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downplaying the horrors of slavery.

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And they found that because the The monument features a bronze woman crowned

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with olive leaves, and she's supposed to represent the South, so this, the

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strong woman, and then underneath her is 14 shields, one for each of the

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14 confederate states, plus Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri, which were border

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states who didn't necessarily secede, so They're pulling in three more states

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who probably don't want to be pulled in.

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be pulled

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then below the shields are these 32 lifelike figures of gods, confederate

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soldiers, and in those figures are two enslaved African Americans.

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And one portrays kind of like that mammy stereotype.

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Think of Gone with the Wind, and she's holding an infant child up to

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a white officer to kind of, kiss the officer goodbye as he goes to war.

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And then,

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goes

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and then the other is a enslaved man like following his owner into battle.

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So because of those two depictions of African Americans and not really

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having their agency, it, it was found by this commission that it

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supported that lost cause narrative and

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Yeah, and, and the interesting thing was, again, from kind of,

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again, me walking around not, not really knowing much about it.

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And at the time you didn't really either.

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Mm-Hmm.

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It is not a monument that's like in your face.

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It's not in the center of anything.

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It's close to, to Arlington house, which is the, the center.

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Because you, like you said, it's one of the older plots.

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Correct.

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But it's, it's not like overly advertised.

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It's, it's just kind of any other memorial that's around

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and it's kind of trees around it.

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So you kind of have to walk.

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to it.

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So the memorial they believed offered this nostalgic mytholized

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version of the confederacy.

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This is this is what the commission wrote in their report.

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Mythologicalized vision of the confederacy, including highly

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sanitized depictions of slavery.

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And then sometimes the commission will consider alternatives to removing and

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They'll add some signage for context or something like that, but ultimately

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they decided that contextualization was not an appropriate option in this case.

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So they said they will be removing only the bronze elements and the

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granite base will remain and they won't disturb any of the 400 graves.

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So if you see our video, It is on this bronze, this, this bronze statue

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is on a granite base and they're only taking the bronze statue.

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Now what's interesting about this bronze statue is it was sculpted by a student

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from VMI and that student from VMI is buried in that Confederate circle

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from, and so he's buried at Arlington.

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He sculpted this.

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He went to VMI and VMI has.

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asked for the statue.

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And

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And is that, that that's where

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that's what they're taking it.

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The governor of Virginia had just came in and said if you're going

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to take down the statue, we would like to take it to private land.

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And since the student at VMI sculpted it, VMI would like to have it.

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VMI is going to put it in a But I think in their cemetery there, but it's being taken

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away from the person who actually sculpted it who's in Arlington But so that's what's

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happening right now We did not we're not aware of that when we made the video if

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you want to see the video on instagram It's just me Showing you the statue.

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It's

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and, and the funny part was is you can kind of behind the scenes here

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a little bit, you were going through kind of some of these Instagram real

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videos that you had made because we're pretty active on Instagram.

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And you said, ah, this video isn't really that good.

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You know, talking about it because you hadn't really told

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any story or drawn any point.

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You had literally just pointed out the, the statue and, and here's

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some graves around and there's, there's a general over there, right?

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And that was it.

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And you posted on Instagram literally a day or two before

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they actually removed it.

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So timing was just interesting for us and people had plenty to say on that post.

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I appreciate that, you know, I, I do say this is section 16, one of the

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most unknown and controversial sections.

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And I had people argue with me, why is it controversial?

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Well, if you look at the 200 other comments in there, you

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would see why it's controversial.

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But I do have a couple comments who said, This is the most unbiased

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description I have seen of this monument.

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Cause all she does is say, here's the monument.

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Here's some people buried here

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And that's it.

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that's it.

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Yeah.

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So, so that was kind of an interesting aside.

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And again, that, that monument wasn't really the focus of our visit, you know,

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and we'll talk about some of the, the Marines that we visited here, but it

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was just something very interested that they, that kind of came about shortly.

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It was literally a week or two after we were

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Yeah.

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And like I said, and we were kind of like, we stumbled upon it because

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we had to be rerouted because president Biden was in Arlington.

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It, we, it was never something we were going to.

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Make a video of but it we now have it.

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It is out there.

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It's been removed.

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If you want to see it in Arlington before it was removed.

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We have the video of it on Instagram.

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we visited Gunny Ermey first, and we've actually talked

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about him before on this podcast.

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We don't have to spend too long on him, but I'll, I'll let you kind of start

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with him and then we'll kind of venture off into some of our other Marines.

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He's really

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Gunny Ermey.

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He's wasn't really a gunnery sergeant, but he plays a gunnery sergeant.

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So, and that's his most famous role in

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And he is known even in the Marine Corps as the

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the gunny.

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So when you hear me say that, sometimes people argue with me.

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Well, he wasn't a gunny.

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Yes, he was not a gunny sergeant.

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Yes, he was in the Marine Corps.

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Yes, he was a staff sergeant in the Marine Corps.

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But his, he's famous for playing a gunnery sergeant.

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So he was born in March of 1944.

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He actually passed in April of 2018.

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He's buried in one of those far out section.

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I think it's a section 82 and he was a U.

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S.

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Marine drill instructor and he came to fame for his role of the gunnery

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sergeant and full metal jacket.

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Earned him a Golden Globe and a nomination for, for best supporting actor because

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he was hired to be kind of a consultant.

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Consultant to the actor who was playing a gunnery sergeant.

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And , the actor couldn't get the cadence fast enough.

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The insults, you know, the, did the digs good enough?

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actually been a drill instructor,

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had been a drill

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So, so for those guys, they did it for probably, Two,

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three years, maybe four, right?

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So it's, it's second nature to them, right?

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The insults just come so naturally.

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And they'll pick on any little thing, a movement, a

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blink, a smile, a sniff, right?

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They're able to come right to you and just pick on that thing.

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And they're so good at what they're going to say.

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I think that the clip that I put in from Full Metal Jacket was

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Gunny Ermey, you know, going up to Private Pyle and saying, Private Pyle,

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do you expect me to believe you don't know if you're left from your right?

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And he says, No, sir.

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He's so you just want to be special, you know, and he just goes right

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at it's there's no pause there, because that's what they do.

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And, you know, I think anybody who's been through any kind of, basic,

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you know, or drill camp, you know, it's, and you've made it through,

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you kind of have a special place in your heart for your drill instructor.

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So for him to play that part and so well, people really liked him in that part

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because he was so authentic in that part.

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He plays a lot of other roles.

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He sometimes got typecast in that authoritative figure role.

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Mississippi Burning is one I really liked him in, but he's also done

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some comedy, which we really liked and the kids, we told them about Toy

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Story, playing Sergeant Toy Story.

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We also like him in Saving Silverman,

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for me, he's in Geico commercials, funny Geico commercials.

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What I love most about him and what we want to honor is he was enlisted in

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the United States Marine Corps from in 1961 at the age of 17 he went through

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boot camp in San Diego, which Scott and I know well, we used to work out

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at that base actually and And he was in the Marine Corps, I think, until

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1972.

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So he served 11 years in the Marine Corps.

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And so we really wanted to honor his service and what he did.

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He was always so proud of his military service.

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He loved being called the Gunny.

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He did USO tours.

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He always took time to speak with people.

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Our post of him on Instagram brings out so many wonderful

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He is beloved

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I even think his daughter, right?

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I

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Yeah, he's so on our second Arlington video, actually our most

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famous You know, our most viewed video, he's on, he's on the thumbnail, right?

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It's, it's him and and the other actor and his daughter.

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I think that's the top pin.

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I pinned the comment because his daughter commented on our video.

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She's thank you so much for, for doing this.

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And we chatted back and forth a little bit.

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So if you actually want to see his daughter's comments on our

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video, you can go look that video

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Yes, it's it's Ermey and Charles Durning.

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And we're, we're honoring basically the movie stars, the actors, the

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media influencers at Arlington.

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But again, if you want to pay your respects to Ermey, if you visit

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Arlington, be prepared for a walk.

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He is the, you go in right to the right, furthest section to the right.

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But he's definitely worth a

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Yeah, he's way out there.

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But it's definitely worth swinging out to section 82.

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I just want to hit on Lee Marvin.

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Real fast.

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Lee Marvin is another actor who we have honored in another one of our videos

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but he is also a Marine and Because we stopped at Pappy Boyington who will talk

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about more but Lee Marvin was so close We do talk about Lee Marvin pretty quickly.

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and his grave side is like very close to the tomb in the unknown.

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Yes.

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and right beside Joe

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Joe Lewis.

Scott: 00:19:09

Joe Lewis.

Scott: 00:19:09

Yep.

Jenn: 00:19:09

so Lee Marvin was a Marine, he joins the Marine Corps in 1942.

Jenn: 00:19:15

He's in the Battle of Saipan.

Jenn: 00:19:17

He gets injured.

Jenn: 00:19:19

He gets injured in the buttocks.

Jenn: 00:19:21

It's it severs his sciatic, but he's awarded the Purple Heart because of that.

Jenn: 00:19:27

And he has a Navy Comendation Medal.

Jenn: 00:19:29

And then he's discharged from the military.

Jenn: 00:19:31

But he's in the Pacific Theater of World War Two.

Jenn: 00:19:35

And he is a very decorated Marine.

Jenn: 00:19:37

And he, was in 20, 21 amphibious assaults on Japanese held islands.

Jenn: 00:19:42

So I just wanted to honor him.

Jenn: 00:19:45

He is a Marine.

Jenn: 00:19:46

Let's not forget, right?

Jenn: 00:19:47

Once a Marine, always a Marine.

Jenn: 00:19:48

He was also proud of his military service and and people still comment about him

Scott: 00:19:54

Yeah, best known for his movie roles and,

Jenn: 00:19:57

oh yeah, Dirty Dozen.

Jenn: 00:19:58

And I always say the man who shot Liberty

Scott: 00:20:00

Jimmy Stewart, right?

Scott: 00:20:02

Great.

Scott: 00:20:02

Yeah.

Scott: 00:20:03

Great.

Scott: 00:20:03

Great movie.

Scott: 00:20:04

Now you mentioned Pappy Boyington.

Scott: 00:20:06

Yes.

Scott: 00:20:06

So once you, for folks who might kind of be familiar with that

Scott: 00:20:10

name, because it even to me, it sounded a little bit familiar.

Scott: 00:20:13

Who was he?

Jenn: 00:20:22

Boyington was a pilot and he was a Marine Corps pilot, which people probably

Jenn: 00:20:27

would be like, Oh, I thought he was Navy.

Jenn: 00:20:29

No, he's Marine Corps.

Jenn: 00:20:30

And he received the Medal of Honor and the Navy Cross.

Jenn: 00:20:33

He joined the Flying Tigers.

Jenn: 00:20:36

And he was also part of the Black Sheep Squadron, which is BMF 214.

Jenn: 00:20:42

He took command of them in August 14th, 1943.

Jenn: 00:20:47

He in Jan, so he, I, so he.

Jenn: 00:20:49

Imagine he's the commanding officer of the Black Sheep.

Jenn: 00:20:53

About six months later, Boyington, outnumbered by Japanese Zero planes,

Jenn: 00:20:57

was shot down in the Pacific Ocean after downing one of the planes.

Jenn: 00:21:01

He's captured by a Japanese submarine and he was held as a prisoner of

Jenn: 00:21:05

war for more than a year and a half.

Jenn: 00:21:07

And he was released shortly after the surrender of Japan.

Jenn: 00:21:11

So this TV series, Baa Baa Black Sheep, it ran for two seasons in the late 70s.

Jenn: 00:21:16

It was inspired by him and his men of the Black Sheep Squadron.

Jenn: 00:21:20

So it builds this whole idea of these marine pilots who live by their own

Jenn: 00:21:27

rules and are a little, you know, unorthodox, but when it really comes

Jenn: 00:21:32

down to it, are totally awesome.

Jenn: 00:21:35

And

Scott: 00:21:36

he makes some guest appearances in the show.

Jenn: 00:21:38

He does.

Jenn: 00:21:39

And he meets the character playing him as an admiral or an older ranking officer

Jenn: 00:21:47

because he's, he's, he's aged, of course.

Jenn: 00:21:49

So he's his character who plays him meets the real life him.

Jenn: 00:21:55

And we show a clip of that in

Scott: 00:21:57

show a clip of that in the video.

Scott: 00:22:11

him kind of going back in there to kind of have this cameo, not as an,

Scott: 00:22:16

as himself, because he was older.

Scott: 00:22:18

But again, seeing someone who was recognized for his service and the

Scott: 00:22:22

TV show, kind of giving him that nod.

Jenn: 00:22:24

Yes.

Jenn: 00:22:25

And he's also somebody who got winged in Pensacola and then he was a part

Jenn: 00:22:31

of the second Marine aircraft group at San Diego Naval Air Station.

Jenn: 00:22:35

So someone again, who's in the same areas that we were when we were in the

Jenn: 00:22:38

military and then he took part in in different Aircraft carriers at Lexington

Jenn: 00:22:45

and New Yorktown so just somebody, you know people will recognize the name

Jenn: 00:22:51

because he's a medal of honor winner because he was a flying tiger because

Jenn: 00:22:54

he was the commanding officer of The black sheep squadron because he was a

Jenn: 00:22:57

prisoner of war and then there was a TV show made about his squadron This

Jenn: 00:23:02

the man was just larger than life

Scott: 00:23:05

and if you're listening and you're a Marine and you want to go to

Scott: 00:23:08

Arlington because we do get those comments all the time of Oh, I'm always, I've

Scott: 00:23:11

always planned on going to Arlington.

Scott: 00:23:13

Thank you for making these videos.

Scott: 00:23:14

So if you're listening again, I'll recommend when you go

Scott: 00:23:18

or before you go download the , Arlington National Cemetery app.

Scott: 00:23:22

It is incredibly useful.

Scott: 00:23:24

It is like the tool if you're going to do a lot of your own kind of walking around

Scott: 00:23:28

and you're not going to use the tram.

Scott: 00:23:30

So download that.

Scott: 00:23:31

ANC, Alpha November Charlie, Arlington National Cemetery app, and you can plug

Scott: 00:23:37

in the person's name and it'll give you kind of the section, the grave number,

Scott: 00:23:40

and it'll actually kind of give you a GPS map to where that, where that is.

Scott: 00:23:45

So if you ever want to go visit some of these people, that's a

Scott: 00:23:47

great way and a great tool for those of you who are kind of smartphone

Scott: 00:23:52

savvy to go walk around Arlington.

Jenn: 00:23:54

we've used it every time.

Jenn: 00:23:55

It saved us.

Jenn: 00:23:56

I do want to say one more thing about Boyington.

Jenn: 00:23:58

He has a record of shooting down 28 aircraft.

Jenn: 00:24:03

So he beat World War One ace Eddie Rickenbacker's record of 26 with 28.

Jenn: 00:24:10

And that was the same day that he was shot

Scott: 00:24:12

shot down.

Scott: 00:24:12

Yeah, that's, that's wild.

Scott: 00:24:14

I mean, I think you even said on the video he's like a, a five times ace.

Jenn: 00:24:17

Yeah, five times A's because A's I, I remind people is when

Jenn: 00:24:20

you've shot down five planes.

Jenn: 00:24:22

So five times A's is, yeah, he's

Scott: 00:24:24

Now, no, not, well it was a decent, decent ways away.

Scott: 00:24:27

We went over and visited I think it was Ira Hayes next after

Jenn: 00:24:32

we did Ira Hayes next Ira Hayes is somebody we've

Jenn: 00:24:44

really just learned a lot more

Scott: 00:24:46

I think it was our last podcast.

Scott: 00:24:50

We interviewed an author who wrote a whole biography.

Scott: 00:24:55

It's the third biography on Ira Hayes.

Scott: 00:24:57

Go back and listen to that.

Scott: 00:24:59

It's very, very interesting because this author is, is, you know, was.

Scott: 00:25:03

Native American, like Ira Hayes was, and so kind of looked at Ira Hayes

Scott: 00:25:08

through a little bit of a different lens than some of the past biographies.

Scott: 00:25:11

So I encourage you to go back to listen to that if you're interested

Scott: 00:25:13

in learning more about Ira Hayes.

Scott: 00:25:14

But what did we learn and what did we talk about in the video?

Jenn: 00:25:20

Ira Hayes, first of all, first and foremost, I want everyone to

Jenn: 00:25:23

know that he is the sixth man on the raising of the flag of Iwo Jima.

Jenn: 00:25:28

So that iconic photograph that was used to make the monument, the Marine Corps

Jenn: 00:25:33

monument and memorial, the sixth man in the back pushing up the flagpole

Jenn: 00:25:37

is Ira Hayes and his grave is off the beaten path and very unassuming.

Jenn: 00:25:44

And I don't even think it's part of the tram tour.

Jenn: 00:25:48

I just want him to have a little bit more of a presence, I feel, in Arlington

Jenn: 00:25:53

because what he's what he did and what he's remembered for, and we'll talk

Jenn: 00:25:58

about the memorial at the end because we took the kids there, it's such an

Jenn: 00:26:01

impressive memorial and he is on it.

Jenn: 00:26:05

It's just something that I think needs to be kind of uh,

Jenn: 00:26:09

celebrated a little bit more.

Jenn: 00:26:11

But Ira Hayes, Ira Hamilton Hayes was born in January of 1923.

Jenn: 00:26:16

He passes away in January of 1955.

Jenn: 00:26:19

And like you said, he was an American Indian from Arizona, and

Jenn: 00:26:23

he's a Marine in World War II.

Jenn: 00:26:26

He

Scott: 00:26:26

he's generally known as

Jenn: 00:26:28

He's generally known as one of the six men of the raising of

Jenn: 00:26:31

the flag at Iwo Jima, the famous photograph by Joe Rosenthal.

Jenn: 00:26:35

And remember, this flag was raised over Mount Suribachi on February 23rd, 1945.

Jenn: 00:26:41

And I think I kind of explain it in the video where there was two flag raisings.

Jenn: 00:26:46

Remember, the first one was smaller.

Jenn: 00:26:48

And when the commanding officer comes on board to Iwo Jima Island.

Jenn: 00:26:53

He sees it and he wants it.

Jenn: 00:26:55

And so they get a bigger ensign and they put up a second one and he's

Jenn: 00:26:59

part of that second photograph, the second raising, although they do

Jenn: 00:27:02

believe he was a part of both of them.

Jenn: 00:27:04

And I remind people as well, there's no flag pole on the ship.

Jenn: 00:27:08

It's not like they, let's bring extra flag poles with us.

Jenn: 00:27:12

So this is a pipe, like a regular that is probably like 10 times

Jenn: 00:27:18

the weight, 20 times the weight.

Jenn: 00:27:20

So when you're thinking like, why does it take six men to raise this

Scott: 00:27:24

This is a big, long, heavy

Jenn: 00:27:27

pipe.

Jenn: 00:27:28

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:27:28

So that's why it's taking six men to raise it up.

Jenn: 00:27:31

And he, he comes home after the raising of Iwo Jima.

Jenn: 00:27:37

He participates in a like a, a tour to raise funds, war bonds, and he's

Jenn: 00:27:44

instrumental in helping to identify the other men in the photograph.

Jenn: 00:27:48

And he, he really is a part of that loan drive fundraising as well in 1946.

Scott: 00:27:55

And he, I mean, he actually becomes pretty famous.

Jenn: 00:27:57

He does.

Jenn: 00:27:58

He does a song written about him, of course, by Johnny Cash,

Jenn: 00:28:02

but he, he's in the movie, Sands of Iwo Jima with John Wayne.

Jenn: 00:28:06

And John Wayne hands him the ensign with two other actors to put the flag up

Scott: 00:28:12

we show that clip in the video,

Jenn: 00:28:13

Jima.

Jenn: 00:28:13

He's the subject of another movie called The Outsider with Tony

Jenn: 00:28:16

Curtis, who plays Ira Hayes we talk about this in our other podcast.

Jenn: 00:28:22

Tony Curtis is not an American Indian.

Jenn: 00:28:25

So the type of makeup and you could call it red face, but this

Jenn: 00:28:29

is another conversation for film and Hollywood and things like that.

Jenn: 00:28:33

But he's inspired many books.

Jenn: 00:28:35

He, The Flag of Our Fathers by Clint Eastwood is a movie.

Jenn: 00:28:38

He's in that movie.

Jenn: 00:28:39

There's a book based on that as well.

Scott: 00:28:41

he was actually at the dedication of the memorial.

Scott: 00:28:45

So,

Jenn: 00:28:45

when they dedicate the memorial.

Jenn: 00:28:48

In Arlington on November 10th, 1954, he's standing there with the

Jenn: 00:28:52

president dedicating the memorial.

Jenn: 00:28:55

He will pass away that January, so two months later.

Scott: 00:28:59

And,

Jenn: 00:29:00

We talk about this more if you want to listen to the other podcast about his

Jenn: 00:29:05

his life and specifically post traumatic stress and specifically how he Medicates

Jenn: 00:29:10

self medicates himself with alcohol and ultimately he dies of exposure After a

Jenn: 00:29:16

night of drinking and so we really want to clear the author wanted to clear up just

Jenn: 00:29:21

the misconceptions about his life and how he's kind of written off as an alcoholic

Jenn: 00:29:25

or written off as a drunk Indian and Just make sure he gets the credit he deserves.

Scott: 00:29:30

Yeah.

Scott: 00:29:31

The, the author Tom Hol, who we interviewed, again, writing

Scott: 00:29:34

this biography, they sent us the biography ahead of time.

Scott: 00:29:37

We got a chance to kind of look through it briefly and then talk to the author.

Scott: 00:29:40

Does a very good job about kind of talking about Ira Hayes and kind of who he really

Scott: 00:29:44

was and who his people really were.

Scott: 00:29:46

So highly encourage you to go back and check that out.

Scott: 00:29:49

So who did we visit after that?

Jenn: 00:29:52

So I, I'm pretty sure we went to section 60 after that

Scott: 00:29:56

I think so.

Jenn: 00:29:56

and it was very special a, we're going to honor a woman Marine section

Jenn: 00:30:01

60 as I remind people is one of the largest sections in Arlington is actually

Jenn: 00:30:05

one of the most active sections in Arlington, still has active burials.

Jenn: 00:30:09

Today, but it's because it's a younger generation and so Megan McClung is

Jenn: 00:30:15

the first female United States Marine Corps officer killed in combat during

Jenn: 00:30:18

Iraq and she was serving as a public affairs officer when she was killed.

Jenn: 00:30:24

She's also the first graduate female graduate of the Naval

Jenn: 00:30:28

Academy to be killed in combat.

Jenn: 00:30:31

So She was born in 1972.

Jenn: 00:30:34

She's killed December 6th, 2006.

Jenn: 00:30:37

And what was very interesting about visiting Major Megan McClung's grave

Jenn: 00:30:42

is right in front of her grave was another woman visiting her son.

Jenn: 00:30:46

And I got to have a conversation with her.

Jenn: 00:30:49

She visits her son every Veteran's Day, his birthday.

Jenn: 00:30:53

She sits out there with him.

Jenn: 00:30:54

He was only in the military for six months when he was killed.

Jenn: 00:30:57

He enlisted right out of high

Scott: 00:30:59

See, Army, Marine?

Scott: 00:31:00

I can't remember.

Scott: 00:31:01

I think it was Army.

Scott: 00:31:02

I

Jenn: 00:31:02

it was Army, because we were having a discussion about the Army Navy game.

Scott: 00:31:05

That's right.

Scott: 00:31:06

That's right.

Scott: 00:31:06

Yeah, she was, she kept saying Beat Navy.

Scott: 00:31:08

Yes,

Jenn: 00:31:09

but I want to remind people, if you go to Arlington and you do encounter

Jenn: 00:31:14

a family, it is okay to ask, talk about their lives, because they do want to

Jenn: 00:31:21

honor their loved ones and talk about their lives and not be forgotten.

Scott: 00:31:25

I will say, when we were there this time, I saw more

Scott: 00:31:29

families, and I saw the range, right?

Scott: 00:31:32

I was very, I appreciated the, the lady that you were talking

Scott: 00:31:36

to because she was very open.

Scott: 00:31:38

She was very, she was more than willing to chat.

Scott: 00:31:41

She was there just kind of enjoying.

Scott: 00:31:42

It was actually a pretty nice, a decent day.

Scott: 00:31:45

But there were other spots.

Scott: 00:31:46

And I think I saw more in section 60 than in any, which kind of makes sense.

Scott: 00:31:51

There were some families that were.

Scott: 00:31:52

And it

Jenn: 00:32:06

who was in the midst of having their moment with their person, but as

Jenn: 00:32:13

someone who's going to put a chair and sit for a little while and you happen

Jenn: 00:32:17

to be walking by, I think it's, it's more than I think it's respectful if

Jenn: 00:32:23

you want to ask about the loved one.

Scott: 00:32:24

was neat too, as we were walking around, and I think it was more in

Scott: 00:32:28

Section 60 than some of the others, is we saw the Marine Corps flags.

Jenn: 00:32:32

Yes.

Jenn: 00:32:33

So, there were so many.

Jenn: 00:32:34

And that's when I realized, oh, they must have put all these flags for the

Jenn: 00:32:38

Marines because the day before was the anniversary of the Marine Corps birthday.

Scott: 00:32:42

so think of the little red Marine

Jenn: 00:32:44

Mm hmm.

Scott: 00:32:45

yellow gold, you know, eagle, globe, and

Jenn: 00:32:47

anchor.

Jenn: 00:32:48

November 10th, 1775, Tun Tavern in Philadelphia, which is always a

Jenn: 00:32:55

joke, that of course the Marine Corps would be established in a bar, right?

Scott: 00:33:00

Yeah.

Scott: 00:33:00

That's classic.

Jenn: 00:33:03

And that's what I loved about Major McClung's grave, is it, it had her

Jenn: 00:33:06

motto on there, which was like, be brief.

Jenn: 00:33:10

Be gone, be strong, be brief, be gone or something like

Scott: 00:33:13

that.

Scott: 00:33:13

Be brief, be bold, be

Jenn: 00:33:14

Yes, and I said, there's nothing that reminds me more what

Jenn: 00:33:17

a Marine would say than be gone.

Jenn: 00:33:20

And Scott and I have served with a lot of Marines.

Jenn: 00:33:23

So Scott and I met on the USS Tarawa, which is a Marine Corps platform ship.

Jenn: 00:33:28

It's a Marine Corps transport ship.

Jenn: 00:33:30

And so the Tarawa is named after battle of the Tarawa in the Pacific,

Jenn: 00:33:34

which is a Marine Corps battle.

Jenn: 00:33:35

And so.

Jenn: 00:33:36

on that ship there'd be about a thousand navy and two thousand marines and that's

Jenn: 00:33:42

how they we transport them and it's a flat deck amphibious boat so we've

Jenn: 00:33:46

spent our time with a lot of marines

Scott: 00:33:50

still have good friends that are

Jenn: 00:33:51

we have very good friends and be gone is probably something i would never

Jenn: 00:33:55

second guess the marine saying to me

Scott: 00:33:56

That's right, that's right.

Scott: 00:33:58

Yeah.

Scott: 00:33:58

It was it was, it was quite the visit and, and I, I really did, did enjoy it.

Jenn: 00:34:11

So what was so interesting is as Scott and I are driving to Arlington

Jenn: 00:34:16

and I'm looking up, Hey, you know, let's pick some really popular Marines to, to

Jenn: 00:34:20

honor at Arlington and John Glenn pops up and I'm like, John Glenn was a Marine.

Jenn: 00:34:25

And Scott was like, he was, and I'm like, Oh my gosh.

Jenn: 00:34:28

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:34:29

John Glenn, astronaut John Glenn was an American Marine Corps aviator.

Jenn: 00:34:34

And actually he was most proud of that than being an astronaut.

Scott: 00:34:39

I was, I was so surprised because you kind of, you kind of

Scott: 00:34:43

boast about it all the time, right?

Scott: 00:34:45

A lot of astronauts are Navy pilots, right?

Scott: 00:34:48

A lot of them are.

Scott: 00:34:49

So I just assumed, I had assumed for forever that he had been a Navy pilot.

Scott: 00:34:55

And learning that he, he was a Marine was really neat.

Jenn: 00:34:58

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:34:58

So John Herschel Glenn, born in July of 1921, he passed December 8th,

Jenn: 00:35:03

day before my birthday in 2016, was an American Marine Corps aviator.

Jenn: 00:35:08

Astronaut, businessman, and politician.

Jenn: 00:35:11

He was the third American in space and the first American to orbit the

Jenn: 00:35:15

earth, circling it three times in 1962.

Jenn: 00:35:18

Now he was a distinguished fighter pilot in World War II and he shot down three

Jenn: 00:35:23

MiGs and was awarded six distinguished flying crosses and 18 air medals.

Jenn: 00:35:29

He was also a test pilot.

Jenn: 00:35:31

And that is what made him look good for the Mercury 7 program and become

Jenn: 00:35:37

one of NASA's first astronauts.

Scott: 00:35:39

kind of the path for pilots.

Scott: 00:35:41

That's typically like they, if, if they go to be a test pilot, then they kind

Scott: 00:35:44

of have that, that check in the box.

Scott: 00:35:46

Yes.

Scott: 00:35:46

For potential

Jenn: 00:35:47

Yes.

Jenn: 00:35:48

So that's on February 20th, 1962 is when he flew the friendship

Jenn: 00:35:51

seven mission, becoming the first American to orbit the earth.

Jenn: 00:35:55

And if you see in the movie hidden figures, he's.

Jenn: 00:35:58

He's played by the character who wants to make sure the

Jenn: 00:35:59

numbers are checking out right.

Jenn: 00:36:01

And so what I appreciate about that is, yes, we've talked about

Jenn: 00:36:04

a lot of astronauts will be Navy or Marine Corps pilots because

Jenn: 00:36:08

you're landing on a carrier.

Jenn: 00:36:09

And because you're landing on a carrier, you're so precise and dialed in and

Jenn: 00:36:12

that's what they want you to be.

Jenn: 00:36:14

If you're flying the space shuttle and as a test pilot, you're flying

Jenn: 00:36:18

so many different air platforms.

Jenn: 00:36:21

You're learning all these different nuances about size and wingspan and

Jenn: 00:36:26

power, and you're able to adapt quickly and understand what's happening with

Jenn: 00:36:31

your aircraft, that they want that kind of pilot again in the space

Jenn: 00:36:35

shuttle in case there's a problem.

Jenn: 00:36:37

Even when you think of the Friendship 7.

Jenn: 00:36:39

And it orbits three times.

Jenn: 00:36:41

I think it was supposed to orbit more than that, but because they

Jenn: 00:36:45

were having some issues with heat, they had brought him in early.

Scott: 00:36:48

I didn't know that.

Jenn: 00:36:49

And so you have to be kind of quickly adaptable.

Jenn: 00:36:52

And that's kind of the Marine Corps

Scott: 00:36:54

Yeah, that, that one was kind of one of the neater ones for me on this

Scott: 00:37:09

particular trip because I absolutely knew who that was and I was just

Scott: 00:37:13

absolutely surprised to learn that he was a Marine, but so it was pretty neat.

Jenn: 00:37:16

Well, we made sure the kids took a picture with his grave and he's

Jenn: 00:37:19

very close to the Tomb of the Unknown.

Jenn: 00:37:21

Like I could see Audie Murphy's grave from him.

Jenn: 00:37:23

I can see the Tomb of the Unknown from him.

Jenn: 00:37:25

So if you're visiting the Tomb of the Unknown, John Glenn is right there.

Scott: 00:37:37

After we visited John Glenn, finally, the President Biden had

Scott: 00:37:42

So his whole entourage has left.

Scott: 00:37:44

So we were able to actually, we actually took some really cool

Scott: 00:37:46

pictures up by the Tomb of the Unknown.

Scott: 00:37:49

Not right in there, but just kind of around it.

Scott: 00:37:51

So that got done.

Scott: 00:37:53

So we were able to kind of get over, like you said, to Audie Murphy's

Scott: 00:37:55

grave and kind of visit him real, real quickly and stuff like that.

Scott: 00:37:58

But then one of the things that we wanted to do, because I had never been

Scott: 00:38:02

there, was get to the Iwo Jima Memorial.

Jenn: 00:38:04

And boy was it impressive.

Scott: 00:38:06

I, I was so I don't know what to, I, I'd seen plenty of pictures, and I,

Scott: 00:38:11

I didn't really have any expectations, and you had run the Marine Corps Marathon

Scott: 00:38:15

twice, so you'd, you'd been there, but I, we got there, and you park kind of

Scott: 00:38:19

around it, and then you kind of walk up, and there's this whole field from where

Scott: 00:38:24

the parking is, and you can see the Iwo Jima Memorial, and I was flabbergasted.

Scott: 00:38:29

It's huge.

Jenn: 00:38:31

and it's

Scott: 00:38:32

massive.

Scott: 00:38:34

I mean, you, the, Go watch our video because I, I try to get some really

Scott: 00:38:38

wide shots basically from the parking lot area and you see how small

Scott: 00:38:42

the people are walking up to it.

Scott: 00:38:44

I was, I was so impressed and the sky was blue and beautiful and

Scott: 00:38:48

the wind was blowing so the flag was, it was just so picturesque.

Scott: 00:38:52

I was like, you know, as a videographer, amateur

Scott: 00:38:54

videographer, I was just in heaven.

Scott: 00:38:56

You know, out there.

Scott: 00:38:57

And we got kind of like a really great picture of you

Scott: 00:38:59

and I in front of the memorial.

Scott: 00:39:01

It was so impressive.

Jenn: 00:39:02

So we use that picture for the Walk with History Christmas card.

Jenn: 00:39:06

It is a 360 monument and it is beautiful on that highest peak.

Jenn: 00:39:11

And that's why when you run the Marine Corps Marathon,

Jenn: 00:39:13

it's that last 2 of your 26.

Jenn: 00:39:16

2 miles is up the hill to the Iwo Jima Memorial because it is so motivational.

Jenn: 00:39:22

Then at the end, like I said, it was dedicated in 1954 and it says

Jenn: 00:39:27

on it to all Marines who have given their lives in defense of the U.

Jenn: 00:39:31

S.

Jenn: 00:39:32

since 1775.

Jenn: 00:39:34

And I even think it says to all the men of the Marine Corps.

Jenn: 00:39:39

Which I talk about because I appreciate that it says that and they haven't

Jenn: 00:39:42

changed it because in the military as a woman They're not gonna update

Jenn: 00:39:48

all the regs and all the stuff.

Jenn: 00:39:49

You just assume when they say Serviceman or it's you you're a part of that.

Jenn: 00:39:54

I never I never batted an eye, I would have so many people

Jenn: 00:39:58

call me, sir, by mistake.

Jenn: 00:40:00

And I never, I just don't sweat it.

Jenn: 00:40:02

It's not a big deal.

Jenn: 00:40:03

Cause you just get used to, so used to saying it.

Jenn: 00:40:05

And so I just always encompassed myself when it says men, I'm a part of that.

Jenn: 00:40:10

It's inspired by that iconic photograph of the six Marines.

Jenn: 00:40:13

Like I said, Ira Hayes is the last one in the back, So I wanted to

Jenn: 00:40:18

make sure that people understand.

Jenn: 00:40:20

It's one of the only few places that is designated to fly the

Jenn: 00:40:25

American flag 24 hours a day.

Jenn: 00:40:28

And it's required, it's officially required.

Jenn: 00:40:30

And JFK wrote that into law in June of 1961, and that's why

Jenn: 00:40:35

it'll always be lit as well.

Scott: 00:40:38

Oh, is that

Jenn: 00:40:39

Mm-Hmm.

Jenn: 00:40:39

. So if you see it at night, it's always gonna have the light on the flag and

Jenn: 00:40:43

the flag will always be flying over it.

Jenn: 00:40:45

So I think that's so

Scott: 00:40:46

It was so cool and it has all the names of kind of all the The wars and

Scott: 00:40:51

that kind of the famous, you know battles that they've been in like engraved all

Scott: 00:40:55

around the monument And it's it really is kind of hard to put into words.

Scott: 00:41:00

It's it's not the same Seeing it in a video, seeing it in

Scott: 00:41:04

a picture, as being there.

Scott: 00:41:06

It's not the same.

Scott: 00:41:08

Being there in person is a completely different experience.

Jenn: 00:41:12

picture, it's not the same.

Jenn: 00:41:18

Being there in person, it would completely be different.

Scott: 00:41:30

it only takes 10 minutes because you're driving around D.

Scott: 00:41:32

C.

Scott: 00:41:32

And driving around D.

Scott: 00:41:33

C.

Scott: 00:41:33

is It is awful.

Scott: 00:41:36

I'm sorry Jen knows and if you've listened to this podcast and I

Scott: 00:41:40

talk about driving around DC.

Scott: 00:41:41

I hate driving around there It's it's brutal, but absolutely worth it.

Scott: 00:41:45

If you're out there make the trip.

Scott: 00:41:53

Thank you for Joining us on our journey of remembrance today Where

Scott: 00:41:58

we explored the courage, sacrifice, and indomitable spirit of the Marines

Scott: 00:42:03

who left their mark on history.

Scott: 00:42:06

Whether it was flying high above the earth, or bravery resulting in one

Scott: 00:42:10

of World War II's most iconic flag raising photographs, these heroes will

Scott: 00:42:16

never be forgotten for their service.

Scott: 00:42:20

And again, thank you for listening to the Talk With History podcast and please reach

Scott: 00:42:24

out to us at our website, TalkWithHistory.

Scott: 00:42:26

com, but more importantly, if you know someone else that might enjoy this

Scott: 00:42:29

podcast, please share it with them, especially if you think today's topic

Scott: 00:42:33

would interest a friend, all you Marines out there, all you military out there.

Scott: 00:42:38

Text this episode to your marine buddies and tell him to look us up

Scott: 00:42:42

We rely on you our community to grow and we appreciate you all every day.

Scott: 00:42:46

We'll talk to you next

Jenn: 00:42:47

to you next time.