Episode 10

Surprising History You Discover at a Cemetery - Lakeview Cemetery, Cleveland, Ohio

We visit Lakeview Cemetery in Cleveland Ohio. The burial site of President James Garfield, John D. Rockefeller, Eliot Ness and many more famous Americans.

This was our first video we recorded at a cemetery and it was much more interesting than we imagined!

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Transcript
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greetings and welcome to the talk with

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History Podcast I'm your host Scott here

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with my wife and historian Jen hello

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on this podcast we talk about history's

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continuing impact on us and our personal

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journey through YouTube as we continue

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to explore record and share our history

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walks with you

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now Jen before we start into the podcast

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today I want to get to our five star

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question and reviews of the week

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so this week we don't have any questions

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but we actually did get some five star

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reviews

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so

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um I want to give some a shout out to a

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couple of our reviewers and some of them

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if

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um I am messing up the names then I

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apologize because the names that you

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left on Apple podcast there are a bunch

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of letters and numbers so uh first one

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here is just someone said hey this is a

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great variety of topics these podcasts

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are a great way to learn on my daily

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commute so much that I wasn't aware of

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and the hosts are wonderfully

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entertaining Ah that's very nice so

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thank you to

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Coco Livy I'm just gonna

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so thank you to Coco Livy there uh the

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next five star review said you know the

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subject is I love the variety there not

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pigeonhole to any one type of historical

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era or subject I've learned a lot great

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podcasts and episodes

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and that is from sjb TMS cool thank you

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to sjb TMS and one more from someone

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that you may know this is a five-star

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review the subject is history made

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interesting I'm not typically a history

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fan but I love talk with history that is

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from alley girl510

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I know her yes you do know her so again

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thank you to thank you to those three

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for leaving us some five star reviews we

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truly appreciate it and it does help the

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show uh for anybody else listening if

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you guys want to leave us a five-star

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review on Apple podcast or share the

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podcast

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we would greatly appreciate that also

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don't forget to check out our other

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podcast the history Buzz where we

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interview folks while chatting about

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history over a couple of drinks and we

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let that conversation wander where it

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may

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[Music]

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so you may not have thought of

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graveyards as a place of History

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but with just a little bit of research

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you'd be surprised at what historical

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figures are resting in your local area

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Cemetery

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this kind of curiosity and other YouTube

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channels like our friends over at Whit

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doc Cemetery tours and the history

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Hunters

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brought us to Lakeview Cemetery in

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Cleveland Ohio

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so Jen why don't you tell us about

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Lakeview Cemetery and who we visited

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there sure

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so

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what opened us up to this Cemetery

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because the cemeteries since doing this

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video we we have ventured more into

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Cemetery

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tours because we found them so

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interesting and had so much history in

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them but what brought us to this

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Cemetery was President Garfield 20th

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president of the United States I worked

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at the James Garfield house in Mentor

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Ohio the James Garfield house was James

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Garfield's

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summer home

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um in Ohio it was like a farmhouse he

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lived there while he was President he

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had bought it before he was president

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and after he was assassinated his family

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continued to live there so I had worked

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there I did an internship at the

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National Park Service and

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when doing that internship everyone

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would ask me have you been to his grave

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have you been to his Mausoleum you

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mentioned that to me a couple times like

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that he wanted to visit it and so it's

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not close by Mentor is about halfway

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between where we lived in Erie and

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Cleveland and his grave is in Cleveland

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this the cemetery is in Cleveland so we

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would have to make like the trip to go

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see it so I had talked you into it let's

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go to the cemetery let's go see uh

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President Garfield but in doing the

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research for who else is in Lakeview

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Cemetery we were like blown away yeah

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and so there was there were some big I

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mean there are some names that I even

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knew a couple that I didn't I kind of

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had to be reminded sure but but to put

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this all in context when Jen says

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hey we had we did more Cemetery you know

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Winston started going to cemeteries more

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and did more Cemetery tours I had never

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once yeah

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thought of going to a cemetery to like

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learn history yeah right so there was

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Arlington we had done Arlington just

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before this yes and this was after it

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and it was and really the the driver was

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because you were working at the James

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Garfield Presidential Library yeah James

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Garfield house yes and so when we

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finally went down there so tell why

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don't you tell our listeners about some

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of the other kind of Larger than Life

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historical figures that are buried at

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this Cemetery in Cleveland it's amazing

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because there if you get onto their

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website they have kind of like a mission

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statement and it's like Lakeview

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Cemetery is committed to providing

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internment services to all Races and

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religions

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while preserving its grounds and status

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as a nationally recognized landmark of

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historical significance now I just read

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that and that's kind of the conclusion

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we come to just by being there just by

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being there I was like these are people

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of all Races these are people of all

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religions these are people of all these

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classes I say this because the richest

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man in America

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for for years is buried in Lakeview

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Cemetery John D Rockefeller is buried in

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Lakeview Cemetery and then you also get

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like the first African-American mayor of

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a major city is buried in Lakeview

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Cemetery and then we're getting like a

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Lawman Elliot Ness is buried in Lakeview

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Cemetery so these huge historic figures

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are coming out at us in this one place

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of burial yeah and again for if you

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don't recognize those names right off

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the bat this is John D Rockefeller of

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railroads and oil and and

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Rockefeller Center in New York like he

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built that yeah his son built it is his

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money yeah his money his you know all

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his work right the major first black

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mayor of a major city yeah you know

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um Elliot Ness so if you've ever seen

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The Untouchables you know for me I knew

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Elliot from a Tupac song yeah you know

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you had no idea who he was I I had I had

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no idea but I had actually seen the

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movie

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um it's a Sean Connery and Kevin Costner

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movie so there's some there's some

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there's some really not just the

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president it's all these other people

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yeah and so it opened in 1869

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um and it's still in use today has

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interesting monuments like there was

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like a a crying lady Monument by the

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lake and that was actually a lot more

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famous than I realized yes and they have

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like they have very interesting

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tombstones like we'll talk about Alan

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freed and his Tombstone looks like a

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jukebox yeah the the Allen Friedman was

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really interesting the crying lady so

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it's basically looks like an she kind of

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looks like an angel I don't know if

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she's got the wings yeah but for some

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reason it's that kind of classic kind of

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rusty green yes and for some reason the

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patina makes it looks like she's got

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tears so it's very artistic and very

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it's it's very emotional yes it was and

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then when I started doing the video and

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making this video video for YouTube I

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was like this is actually really well

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known it is and it's actually so

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different cemeteries have different

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missions I would say and Lakeview

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cemetery's mission is really to be in

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the community they want Community

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involvement they have a whole I mean we

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see you'll see it in our video they have

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a whole daffodil Hill and they want

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people to visit it they want people to

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drive in their Cemetery take pictures

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they want people to walk they want

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people to picnic they want people to

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kids to play like they encourage that

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behavior where you'll get other

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cemeteries who very much discourage that

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behavior Arlington is one of them so you

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have to be very aware of what the

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cemetery's purpose and what their

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mission is trying to accomplish this was

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much more of and we'll go into some of

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the characters but just up front this

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was much more of a tourist destination

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and even the people there when we were

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walking around visiting like they just

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started chatting with us you know and

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they and they saw that we were making

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videos and nobody was really bothered by

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it I think it's one of the first times

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we handed out our business card that's

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right yeah that's right

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um so so Jen who are the some of the

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first kind of historical figures where

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we're going to be talking a little bit

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about who do we see there

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well so one of the ones I really wanted

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to talk about was Ray Chapman and Ray

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Chapman was a baseball player he played

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for the Cleveland Indians and he was the

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only major league baseball player who

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has died from an injury of a ball during

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a game

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and he was hit in the head with a

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baseball this is this is 30 years before

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helmets before so it's even after 30

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years after he's hit and killed they

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still don't introduce helmets and he is

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hit by a Yankee player a pitcher named

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Carl Mays and Carl Mays had the

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reputation for being kind of a wild

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pitcher anyway but after he kills Ray

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Chapman

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um

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his reputation pretty much goes downhill

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from there but um and that grave like I

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mean I had all sorts of stuff around it

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baseballs and gloves yeah and people

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bought pennants like Cleveland Indian

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pennants that's right and people were

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that's those are the people who we gave

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our card to yeah people were visiting

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that grave so people come there for that

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grave and

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you know he was only 29 years old he was

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very young and what I found interesting

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about him

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is

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he his wife is pregnant when he dies and

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she has a daughter and they she gets

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remarried to a man in California and she

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ends up never really recovering from her

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husband's death and she ends up passing

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away where her husband in California

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just has her sent back to Cleveland and

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buried in Calgary Cemetery and why visit

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Calgary Cemetery in the Cleveland torso

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killer video oh and then the daughter

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actually she dies not long after at

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eight years old from measles oh my gosh

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and she's actually buried in Calvary

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Cemetery too so I I sometimes find it

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sad when families are separated I feel

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like they should be buried with Ray

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Chapman you know so that's kind of like

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something that I you know just

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I always like to look at find a grave

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and the connections people still have

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sure

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um but no Ray Chapman is a very popular

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grade because he was killed by a

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baseball in a major league game I think

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he was pretty close to the radio DJ

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no

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the rate of DJ is close to eliotness

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that's right that's right yeah

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so

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Elliot nass we can talk about Elliot

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Ness a little bit so I was so excited

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we're so excited because I loved the

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Untouchables so if anyone has seen that

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movie with Kevin Costner and Sean

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Connery to me it's probably one of Sean

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Connery's best roles he wins the Academy

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Award for it for best supporting yes his

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only Academy Award if he wins it for The

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Untouchables yeah and he has the great

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line we put it in the video like how far

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are you willing to go yeah like you want

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to take down Al Capone what are you

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prepared to do yeah because you've got

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to go all the way yeah that's a classic

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it's a classic kind of monster era movie

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but for the cops per se from the cops

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yes right now the sad thing about The

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Untouchables is most of it is highly

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historically inaccurate the movie the

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movie no they're actually I mean there

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was a group right Elliot and S like they

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were actually him and like his his other

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kind of straight stick cops he had a

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small team and they were the they were

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anti-prohibitionists so what they did

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what he did basically is he did

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he was he was brought in to take down Al

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Capone and how they did then what they

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did is they basically cut out the

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middleman with his alcohol Supply and

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that's what they did and they kind of

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show that in the movie A little bit yeah

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and as they're doing that the problem is

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when they try to bring them up on

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charges of um you know prohibition is

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the the judge is paid off right and

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that's what happens in real life right

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because because Capone had paid

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everybody off cops judges so what

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happens is they actually are actually

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they actually are able to bring them up

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on tax evasion charges and uh Elliot

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Eliot ness's brother works for the

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treasury and Elliot Ness is actually

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working for the treasury at this time as

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well and

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um it's actually the the three charges

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stick and he gets sent to prison for 11

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years and there is one moment when Ness

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and Capone actually meet I think it's

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when Ness takes Capone from the jail and

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puts them on a plane to go to another

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bigger prison yeah it's the one time

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they're actually like in the same

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space but the whole point of The

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Untouchables and This this term was

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coined by the Chicago newspaper for the

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six men that Ness gets around him is

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they can't be bought right Capone can't

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pay them off yeah and so they're

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Untouchable by and they try to show the

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corruption they try to kind of explain

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why they're called The Untouchables yeah

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and so that kind of really makes Elliot

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ness's career

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he moves on to Cleveland so this is this

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is what opens us up to like why is he in

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Cleveland why is Elena that made no

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sense he's from Chicago right this whole

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Al Capone case is Chicago yeah he comes

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to Cleveland after he's hired a safety

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director and

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the serial killer starts operating yeah

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which is another video it's another

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video and we'll talk about it on another

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podcast and long story short he sees

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unsuccessful in Catching him yeah it

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becomes it tarnishes his career and he

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ends up going he ends up working for

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like a counterfeit company in

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Pennsylvania

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and uh he he dies of a heart attack very

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young 54 years old and he dies

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relatively obscure and then a book comes

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out about two years later called The

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Untouchables yeah and his whole life is

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made TV show comes out a movie comes out

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Elliot Ness gains notoriety he's in a

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song yeah right and now you think it now

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he would never recognize the the

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famousness that he has because he wasn't

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that famous back then he was very he was

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very tarnished and discouraged after

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what happens in Cleveland yeah

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so um and he was a alcoholic he was he

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was drinking a lot because again he felt

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very he couldn't solve that last case

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and he burns down that shanty town and

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that really just yeah and we'll and

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we'll talk about that yeah but that's in

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another video

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and we'll talk about that on another

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podcast so again so we mentioned earlier

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that uh Alan freed his grave is like

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across the street so right there so

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Elliot Ness

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if you see his Tombstone just so we can

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color a cover Elliot so fast he's

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actually not buried he's that's right

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his ashes are there and they're not

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actually even by the tombstone they're

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in the lake yeah and the police

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department spread his ashes in the lake

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yeah in this Cemetery in the cemetery so

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the tombstone is just kind of like a to

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mark that his marker for him yeah yeah

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his ashes are close by yeah but not

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actually there and then close to that

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lake is also Allen freed and Alan freed

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is the whole reason why the Rock and

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Roll Hall of Fame is in Cleveland yep so

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he was a disc jockey to play

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African-American music and give credit

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to African-American artists I don't

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think I realized that and so he coins

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the term rock and roll he comes up with

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that term and that is the whole reason

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it's in Cleveland because Cleveland's

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invented he was pretty big back in the

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time because even when I was making a

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video yeah I could Google something on

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YouTube If you Google him on YouTube you

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can find his old sure TV shows so after

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he does that he starts having big

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concerts and I think one of the things

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on his tombstones is one of the concerts

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he had one of the first the first Rock

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and Roll concert was in Cleveland then

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he gets hired by bigger TV shows he kind

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of does a lot of what de Clark does with

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the American Bandstand but Alan Freed's

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career is ruined with um he is part of

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the Scandal where he's paid by certain

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record labels to play their artists

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um records right and he does it and so

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it's a huge Scandal he's discredited in

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the community he's totally ruined and he

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ends up dying young of again alcoholism

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so and his name is very tarnished where

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people don't associate Alan Reed with

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the same type of

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um stardom as dick is De Clark right

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even though it's really Alan freed who's

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who sets the stage for Dick Clark so but

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Alan freed unfortunately that Scandal

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just yeah and just you know if if you're

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if you're less interested in this

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historical aspect and you let's say you

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live in the Cleveland area and you're

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going there the tombstone is just cool

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it looks amazing it looks like a big it

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looks like a big jukebox it's really

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really neat it and it and it stands out

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just because it's

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it it's not your typical headstone it

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literally looks like it's like about the

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size of what a jukebox should be it's

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it's gigantic and you can see it from

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Elliot ness's uh and for us we weren't

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really expecting to go to his grave but

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because you could see it from Elliot

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ness's grave and it was what is that

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neat we walked over and we was like oh

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and you can basically read his story on

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the tombstone yeah now I had read also

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that he wasn't originally buried there

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and then his ashes went to the Rock and

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Roll Hall of Fame for a long time and

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then the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

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asked for them to remove his ashes and

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his his family put him in Lakeview San

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materials oh interesting yeah so I don't

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know what that's all about but that's

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kind of what happened there

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[Music]

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now there were some other ones if and

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I'm trying to remember so so of course

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we do we do Carl Stokes he's that first

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um mayor of a major city he's the first

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black mayor of Cleveland

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and we go to his grave we go to Garrett

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Morgan's grave he was an inventor the

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three-way traffic light in gas masks yes

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that's right I and I was pretty neat

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he's African-American he's

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African-American as well yes so so think

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about that let's pause really quick on

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that right traffic lights yeah like this

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guy invented traffic lights red yellow

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green like thing that everybody knows

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nowadays everybody Associates those

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colors with you know go stop and slow

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down all right speed up or the road rage

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or what have you whatever City that

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you're living in this guy Garrett Morgan

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Garrett Morgan invented that as well as

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gas masks I mean talk about two

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completely opposite things safety very

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safe yeah that's true that's right very

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safety oriented but I mean gas masks so

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what about do you remember when he no

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but they're very like premature gas

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masks like the basic the the precursive

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yeah precursors yeah what would actually

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be used and all that stuff yeah but uh

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that was just like it was such a random

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super interesting and he was kind of a

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little bit further away yes from some of

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them so this is a big Cemetery it's 235

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Acres yeah it's it was gigantic it's

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very big Cemetery so you have to it's

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again

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you have to know where you're going you

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have to get a map you have to kind of

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plot out the the graves like even for

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Garrett Morgan I remember we have his

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section and lot number but we had to

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walk around there for a little bit we

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had to look around for a little while um

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we go to Salisbury so I was gonna ask

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was that where Salisbury so this is like

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the Salisbury steak guy so if you walk

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over if you go and watch our video and

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the video link will be in the podcast

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you know notes description here

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um you know I kind of show like a quick

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picture of like hey what's a salisbury

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steak again yeah you know if you're not

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if you're not a big meat eater or

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whatever right but this is the guy that

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came up with the Salisbury Salisbury or

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this is you know it was named after him

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it was named after him so he comes he's

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a doctor who starts to see the benefits

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of a meat-centered diet so basically

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sees the benefits of high protein right

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and so the Salisbury steak is named

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after him was he wasn't he Scottish or

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something like that I think so but it's

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basically just a steak with gravy

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basically back in the day when steaks

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were really dry because you can imagine

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just cooking them over like kind of spit

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or something to wait to make them edible

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was probably to put some kind of gravy

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on them to eat them so thank you put

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some of the extra juices on yeah but no

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one of the bigger Graves we saw was of

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course

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John D Rockville yeah yeah his grave was

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huge it's huge he has a huge Obelisk

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yeah and he's buried I think it's so

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funny he's buried beside his mother yeah

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and his wife yeah shocker right between

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us yeah oh my gosh well and you know

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what I didn't know that you taught me

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while we were there is people there was

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all this money laying around money and

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I'm like not just not just pennies yeah

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it's like dollar bills

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yeah people leave money on his grave and

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they do that because

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there's a Superstition that if you leave

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money on rockefeller's grave your your

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personal money will multiply the way

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Rockefellers money multiplied but

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Rockefeller I mean he made his money in

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a way that I I'd say this on the video

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you can't make your money today he

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monopolized Standard Oil yeah he cut out

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all middlemen he overpriced so middlemen

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couldn't afford transportation and then

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once he owned all the oil he could jack

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up the prices yeah and so and again I

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didn't really understand this until I

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started making making the video when

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when Jen says monopolize the oil

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industry it was a true and legitimate

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Monopoly if so I do I show a picture of

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because the U.S government eventually

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they broke up Standard Oil they won't

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let you do that anymore yeah because

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it's not fair to and so there there's a

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tree so there's a picture right there's

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a picture kind of showing like when

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Standard Oil was broken up into three or

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four things and then three or four

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things from each of those was in all the

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big name companies Exxon Mobile all

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those they all were born from standard

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standard oil if you look at that video

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pause it on that section and just look

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at what standard oil was everything that

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came from it and you'll see all the big

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name oil oil companies today you're like

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oh my gosh he he basically owned like

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the entire world Supply yes you know and

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supplied oil to the entire world at the

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time yes he did and it doesn't support

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free market it doesn't know so not at

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all that's a smidge of a monopoly yeah

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but he so he tries to make good right so

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Rockefeller goes oh buy this uh these 22

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acres in Manhattan and I'll build all

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these buildings and I'll make it so I'm

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doing something good for society and you

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know we'll build uh Rockefeller Center

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and we'll build 30 Rock and we'll build

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a bunch of different things in that show

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30 Rock 30 Rockefeller Center yeah it's

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him yeah it's him

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so it's very interesting he lives to be

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a very old too he lives to be 98 years

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old so I mean talk about just a guy who

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just won't quit in every single way

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he was the first billionaire in the U.S

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and then um of course we go to

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[Music]

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Garfield

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yeah that was cool James Garfield 20th

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president of the United States

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assassinated he was shot in the train

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station in Washington DC on September 18

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1881 and he

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um

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no actually I'm sorry he shot July 2nd

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1881 he dies September 18 1881 yeah and

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we now remind me that was his was the

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mausoleum we didn't get to go inside yes

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because of covet you couldn't go inside

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it's a large I mean it's it's a huge

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Monument I would love to go back and get

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a chance to go inside I mean at the time

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it was like 100 135 000 it took nine

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years to build so he dies in 1881

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like most presidents he lays in state at

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the rotundra and the capital then he

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goes on again like a a funeral train

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tour same thing they did with Lincoln

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yeah and he brought back to Cleveland

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and then he's put he's he's at Lakeview

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in a vault and he's kept there for nine

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years until they build this Mausoleum

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and it's it's huge we saw it's beautiful

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yeah stained glass windows gorgeous from

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the outside we weren't allowed to go

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inside and there's a big 12-foot marble

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statue of him inside and he's buried

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there beside his wife or they're not

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even Barry they're in tombs yeah so

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their coffins are visible with their um

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with the American flag and in the video

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I show some some pictures right that are

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that are publicly available online yeah

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so if you walk again if you watch the

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video you can kind of see what it looks

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like inside if you ever want to go visit

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for yourself I'd go back just to visit

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yeah it's really neat um

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but here's a he's a an interesting

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president because he's basically killed

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more or less by his doctors yeah that's

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right because he they keep this is

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before washing your hands this is if

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we're using gloves this is for

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sterilizing instruments so because he's

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shot in the back and it goes into his

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abdomen doctors keep trying to check for

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the bullet because he never got it out

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they never got it out and they keep

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trying to get it out and they can't

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quite find it and they keep sticking

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dirty instruments and dirty fingers he

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dies of blood poisoning gangrene and so

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his the defense of his assassin is that

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I shot him but I didn't kill him that's

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right that's right so that's what he

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says and he was actually and I didn't

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realize that he was actually a pretty

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popular president elected like he was he

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was very popular so he was a general in

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the Civil War he's a great orator what a

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amazing speaker and he was well educated

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he was taught at um college and that's a

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that's what some of the murals on the

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side of the mausoleum have him to being

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a teacher being a professor so and he

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was very well liked and that's at the

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time the two sides couldn't decide on a

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president and they both kind of dug in

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their heels and then someone said well

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what about Garfield I was like yeah yeah

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so that's basically how he won the

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presidency they called in the Dark Horse

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because no one expected him to win and

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then he won yeah he was like the one

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person that everybody could agree with

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mom like yeah actually I think he'd be

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pretty good like we really don't like

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these other two but he'd be pretty good

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pretty good yeah so that's how he won

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yeah

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um so that was that was neat and I

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wanted to see that so that was very

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important and

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this was the first time that we had

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brought the kids with us and

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um my middle son really took an interest

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because we had spoken about a school

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tragedy yeah that's right that was a

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monument that's right 169 children were

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killed in a fire in 1908 at a school in

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Cleveland and there was a

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a monument to them so I was talking

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about that and my middle son was very

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interested in that well and I didn't

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realize that that particular event again

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that happened in Ohio yes but it was the

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reason that they changed a lot of safety

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codes

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and part of what happened was that all

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the kids were trying to rush out of this

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cafeteria and the the doors swung

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inwards yes and not outwards and

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obviously they were panicking they

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didn't realize this and so now

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if you ever go into a a space like that

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all doors in large auditoriums like that

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they all swing out and that was that was

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because of this tragedy yeah and it's

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yeah it was very you know of course a

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lot of safety protocols born of tragedy

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you know and that was one of them and it

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was there's a lot of children you know

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so it was a pretty sad thing and of

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course my son took interest in that and

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so we had a we had to talk about that of

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course but um

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I think one of the other Graves we see

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here is Devereaux

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oh yes so that's just something that

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always stuck out in my mind as those

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three characters walking home from the

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American Revolution there's a famous

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painting and I just had always seen it

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recreated yeah right so so again most

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people listening to this because I had

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no idea sure right and I'm not sure you

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even did I mean you may have because

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you're super smart but most folks won't

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know Devereaux they won't yeah even

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trying to describe the painting of the

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three men walking kind of across a

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battlefield one kind of drumming one

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carrying the American flag carrying the

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Americans and one kind of injured

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playing the flute right and it's been

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recreated it's been recreated like

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Mickey Donald and Goofy recreated it I

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think they recreated a lot like in just

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cartoons and stuff and again we show the

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pictures on the video but it was just so

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neat so Deborah was one of the models

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one of the models for the painting yeah

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yeah the original paintings just kind of

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again such a random aside for such a a

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pretty famous painting yeah right again

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it's been recreated and reacted and you

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know across cartoons and all sorts of

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stuff if you look it up online or if you

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watch our video

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you'll recognize you'd be like oh yeah

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I've seen that before well yeah again

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this was this was such a fun

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one to do because it was unexpectedly

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just a nice afternoon

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um

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this was the first time that I thought

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of local cemeteries as places to visit

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and the first time outside of Arlington

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National Cemetery that I viewed a city

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cemetery as more of an afternoon

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destination on a nice day

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because you never know who might be

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resting right in your hometown

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so again thank you to those lists for

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thank you for listening to the talk with

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History Podcast and please reach out to

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us at our website talk with history.com

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that's talk with history.com but more

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you all we will talk to you next time

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thank you

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[Music]

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foreign

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[Music]

About the Podcast

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Talk With History
A Historian and Navy Veteran talk about history inspired travels, their YouTube channel journey, and examine history through conversations with the curious, the explorers, and the history lovers out there

About your host

Profile picture for Scott Bennie

Scott Bennie

Host of the Talk With History podcast, Producer over at Walk with History on YouTube, Editor of the Hashtag Historic newsletter.