Visiting Appomattox Court House and unknown facts of the Civil War surrender

Jenn: 00:00:00

Wilber McLean can't seem to get away from the Civil War, right?

Jenn: 00:00:03

Because his home is destroyed.

Jenn: 00:00:06

He lives in the city of Manassas.

Jenn: 00:00:08

Uh, during the first battle of the Civil War, he wants to

Jenn: 00:00:12

move away from the fighting.

Jenn: 00:00:13

So he moves to the town of Clover Hill, which becomes the town

Jenn: 00:00:17

of Appomattox Courthouse and.

Jenn: 00:00:21

When the surrender takes place, Marshall, who is Lee's a second right hand man,

Jenn: 00:00:27

um, aid has to find a suitable place for surrender, and he finds the Wilber

Jenn: 00:00:34

McLean house in Mads Courthouse.

Scott: 00:00:48

Welcome to Talk With History.

Scott: 00:00:50

I'm your host Scott here with my wife and historian Jen.

Scott: 00:00:52

Hello.

Scott: 00:00:54

On this podcast, we give you insights to our history inspired world travels

Scott: 00:00:57

YouTube channel journey, and examine history through deeper conversations

Scott: 00:01:01

with the curious, the explorers, and the history lovers out there.

Scott: 00:01:05

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To help the show grow and we are still slowly plotting away at chipping away

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at that lead with the History channel.

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We're coming after you.

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I'm not aware of podcasts that they put on, so maybe, maybe we're ahead

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of them on the podcast, right?

Scott: 00:01:27

Yes.

Scott: 00:01:27

I'm just, I'm just

Jenn: 00:01:28

gonna kind of throw, we're gonna have more subscribers

Jenn: 00:01:30

in the History Channel Someday

Scott: 00:01:31

we will.

Scott: 00:01:34

Jen, why don't you tell us what we're talking about today?

Scott: 00:01:36

One of our, our videos that we just

Jenn: 00:01:38

released.

Jenn: 00:01:38

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:01:39

This, uh, video and this podcast is a very important place and moment in time

Jenn: 00:01:47

for any history lever, any adventure, any explorer, because we go to a place

Jenn: 00:01:54

that's a, a bucket list historical

Scott: 00:01:56

location.

Scott: 00:01:57

Yeah.

Scott: 00:01:57

And you lead off the video.

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I mean, right off with that.

Scott: 00:02:00

Hey, bucket list.

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Place for any history, fan or historian.

Scott: 00:02:04

Mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:02:04

So where were we?

Scott: 00:02:05

We were at

Jenn: 00:02:06

Appomattox Courthouse in Virginia.

Scott: 00:02:08

So we, we were at Appomattox Courthouse.

Scott: 00:02:09

So if you don't know, or if you, if you're, if you're just joining

Scott: 00:02:12

us for the first time, uh, we just live a couple hours away from there.

Scott: 00:02:15

We live in Virginia and so we had to get out to Appomattox.

Scott: 00:02:19

Yes.

Scott: 00:02:19

And we actually learned a fair amount while we were there.

Scott: 00:02:23

Like you, you kind of done some research before we got out there,

Scott: 00:02:26

but, um, one of the things.

Scott: 00:02:29

That a lot of people didn't know was kind of the whole naming convention.

Scott: 00:02:32

We kind of led off with that.

Jenn: 00:02:33

Yes, because it's always a confusing thing for any historian when

Jenn: 00:02:39

they talk about the surrender of the Civil War, and we'll go into some of the.

Jenn: 00:02:45

Feedback we've gotten from people the, this is the official

Jenn: 00:02:50

surrender of the Civil War.

Jenn: 00:02:51

This is where Lee and Grant will meet.

Jenn: 00:02:54

So you got the commander of the Confederate forces and the commander of

Jenn: 00:02:58

the Union forces are going to meet and actually work out terms of surrender.

Jenn: 00:03:03

There are other people, historians who will surmise other moments

Jenn: 00:03:09

and battles that were the actual.

Jenn: 00:03:12

Surrendering points or when the thing when tides were turned towards surrender.

Jenn: 00:03:18

But this is the actual moment where they're gonna meet officially.

Jenn: 00:03:22

And, um, write up terms of surrender.

Jenn: 00:03:25

And so I wanna make that very clear.

Scott: 00:03:27

Yeah, we, we, we did, and it's common with, with all of our videos,

Scott: 00:03:31

um, especially the more popular ones that people always kind of jump in.

Scott: 00:03:33

And we actually, we had, we had some folks kind of teach us, you

Scott: 00:03:36

know, some, some interesting, interesting facts on different videos.

Scott: 00:03:39

Like, you know, The naming convention behind Bull Run

Scott: 00:03:42

Manasas and things like that?

Scott: 00:03:43

Yes, yes.

Scott: 00:03:44

But for Appomattox specifically, uh, we always, we had a few folks jumping in and

Scott: 00:03:48

saying, Hey, this wasn't the actual end.

Scott: 00:03:51

Like there was troops over here fighting like a few weeks later.

Scott: 00:03:53

And that's

Jenn: 00:03:54

true because I mean, things aren't, Communication isn't traveling quickly.

Jenn: 00:03:58

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:03:59

Right.

Jenn: 00:03:59

It's not like it's a phone call.

Jenn: 00:04:00

Okay.

Jenn: 00:04:00

War's over.

Jenn: 00:04:01

It doesn't work that way.

Jenn: 00:04:02

It's

Scott: 00:04:02

the 1860s.

Scott: 00:04:03

I mean, it takes weeks for a word to get anywhere.

Scott: 00:04:05

To do anything.

Scott: 00:04:06

Exactly.

Jenn: 00:04:06

So yeah, there were people still fighting.

Jenn: 00:04:09

Absolutely.

Jenn: 00:04:09

But this is the official surrender.

Jenn: 00:04:12

What was also interesting is you're gonna, if you're a, you know, moderate historian,

Jenn: 00:04:17

you know the surrender happened in Appomattox Courthouse and it sounds like.

Jenn: 00:04:22

A location, right?

Jenn: 00:04:23

A building.

Jenn: 00:04:23

A building.

Jenn: 00:04:24

And it is a building, but it's also the name of the town.

Jenn: 00:04:29

And the surrender doesn't take place in the actual courthouse

Jenn: 00:04:34

building of Appomattox.

Jenn: 00:04:36

It takes place in them by clean house.

Jenn: 00:04:38

Which is located in the town of Appomattox

Scott: 00:04:41

Courthouse.

Scott: 00:04:42

The, the Appomattox Courthouse, the actual building, the courthouse,

Scott: 00:04:47

that's where the visitor

Jenn: 00:04:48

center is.

Jenn: 00:04:48

Yes.

Jenn: 00:04:49

And that has a great visitor center.

Jenn: 00:04:51

It's very good.

Jenn: 00:04:51

It's very good.

Jenn: 00:04:52

A lot of information.

Jenn: 00:04:53

They have a, a great movie there and I think famous actors are in

Jenn: 00:04:58

that movie and it sets the tone.

Jenn: 00:05:01

For where you're at and the buildup and what happened,

Jenn: 00:05:05

uh, that day in April in 1865.

Jenn: 00:05:08

So it's a, it's very good to get in there and watch that movie.

Jenn: 00:05:11

Plus they have some artifacts in there.

Jenn: 00:05:13

They have the actual surrender table in there.

Jenn: 00:05:16

So it it, you definitely wanna visit the actual Appomattox Courthouse in Appomattox

Jenn: 00:05:22

Courthouse cuz it is the visitors

Scott: 00:05:23

center.

Scott: 00:05:24

Yeah, so it's not, it wasn't the Apax, the actual building, the courthouse

Scott: 00:05:28

building where the surrender took place.

Scott: 00:05:30

But again, that, that visitor center and some of the other things there, like,

Scott: 00:05:33

they actually probably have one of the best depictions of what it actually looked

Scott: 00:05:36

like inside of the McLean house when they were sitting down and actually, you

Scott: 00:05:41

know, signing the, signing the paperwork.

Scott: 00:05:42

Yes.

Scott: 00:05:42

Because they, they pointed out, one of the things that I liked that they

Scott: 00:05:45

pointed out, they said, Hey, this painting over here, Is very famous

Scott: 00:05:50

and a lot of people misconstrue that as what actually happened.

Scott: 00:05:53

And it's the painting of Grant and Lee where they're almost like

Scott: 00:05:56

sitting right at the same table.

Scott: 00:05:58

Yeah.

Scott: 00:05:58

Right next to each other in the center of the room.

Scott: 00:06:00

And that's actually in historically

Jenn: 00:06:02

inaccurate.

Jenn: 00:06:02

It's inaccurate.

Jenn: 00:06:03

And also you have George Custer there who, who, he wasn't there in the room.

Jenn: 00:06:06

Uh, George Custer is pinnacle to.

Jenn: 00:06:09

The whole surrender in general, cuz he's the first person to actually

Jenn: 00:06:12

get the surrender flag or dish towel they use for the surrender.

Jenn: 00:06:16

But he's not in the room when the official surrender

Jenn: 00:06:20

documents are written out inside.

Jenn: 00:06:22

He's outside, uh, with his men, so, They have him there, I think

Jenn: 00:06:26

is to pay some, to pay homage to him in his part in the surrender.

Jenn: 00:06:31

But he wasn't in the room.

Jenn: 00:06:32

Yeah.

Scott: 00:06:32

So from there, we, we were in the actual courthouse itself,

Scott: 00:06:37

which was a visitor center.

Scott: 00:06:38

So we were chit-chatting and this, that and the other.

Scott: 00:06:39

And all of a sudden when we were there, we hear this announcement,

Scott: 00:06:44

you know, the the, the McLean house.

Scott: 00:06:46

If you wanna see the McLean house, it will be closing in like, It's like 10 minutes.

Scott: 00:06:49

10 minutes.

Scott: 00:06:50

It's 15 minutes.

Scott: 00:06:50

Yeah.

Scott: 00:06:51

You, you have 15 minutes and it's closing for the next 90 minutes.

Scott: 00:06:53

And we're like, oh my gosh, what's going on?

Scott: 00:06:55

We had just gotten there, so we ran over it kind of made our way up.

Scott: 00:06:58

Mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:06:59

And we didn't want to ha like, have to wait to go to the one building

Scott: 00:07:01

that we actually went to go see for 90 minutes because they were, you

Scott: 00:07:04

know, the people, they were working.

Scott: 00:07:06

They were, they had to take a lunch

Jenn: 00:07:07

break.

Jenn: 00:07:08

So we've talked about will.

Jenn: 00:07:10

Mer McLean before, right?

Jenn: 00:07:12

We've talked about him on two separate lo uh, occasions with Walk with History.

Jenn: 00:07:16

We have visited his grave in the Alexandria Cemetery, and we had visited

Jenn: 00:07:22

kind of the area where his home was in the first Battle of Bull Run,

Jenn: 00:07:27

the first battle of the Civil War.

Jenn: 00:07:29

He is also a historic character of the Civil War because.

Jenn: 00:07:35

Wilber McLean can't seem to get away from the Civil War, right?

Jenn: 00:07:38

Because his home is destroyed.

Jenn: 00:07:41

He lives in the city of Manasas.

Jenn: 00:07:43

Uh, during the first battle of the Civil War, he wants to

Jenn: 00:07:47

move away from the fighting.

Jenn: 00:07:48

So he moves to the town of Clover Hill, which becomes the town

Jenn: 00:07:52

of Appomattox Courthouse and.

Jenn: 00:07:56

When the surrender takes place, Marshall, who is Lee's a second

Jenn: 00:08:01

right hand man, um, aid has to find a suitable place for surrender.

Jenn: 00:08:06

And he finds the Wilber McLean house in Mads courthouse and the the

Jenn: 00:08:13

surrender takes place in the parlor.

Jenn: 00:08:15

So Wilbur McClean cannot get away from the Civil War.

Jenn: 00:08:18

Yeah, it begins and ends.

Jenn: 00:08:20

Uh, where he lives.

Jenn: 00:08:21

And,

Scott: 00:08:21

and that's, and it's funny, I've mentioned it a couple

Scott: 00:08:24

times throughout this podcast and videos and things like that.

Scott: 00:08:27

I love the random little historic characters that just pop up and are

Scott: 00:08:32

well known for some one random thing.

Scott: 00:08:35

And Will McClean is one of those I.

Scott: 00:08:37

And so that just kind of made me smile because now we've kind of visited

Scott: 00:08:41

where, you know, where the Civil War started, where the Civil War ended,

Scott: 00:08:44

and where Wilman McClean, who was at both of those locations for both

Scott: 00:08:47

times where he's actually buried.

Jenn: 00:08:51

So it's interesting that the town is called Appomattox Courthouse, and we

Jenn: 00:08:56

talk a little bit about that in the video.

Jenn: 00:09:00

Clover Hill, that town is about a hundred people, and it's a farming community,

Jenn: 00:09:05

so half of the people are enslaved because when you have farming in the

Jenn: 00:09:08

south, your laborers are enslaved.

Jenn: 00:09:11

So half of the town is enslaved.

Jenn: 00:09:13

It is along the Lynchburg Stagecoach line, and they decided to build a

Jenn: 00:09:19

courthouse there for government, for governing, so people in the

Jenn: 00:09:24

county can come and do their.

Jenn: 00:09:27

Ju ju judicial business.

Jenn: 00:09:30

When a courthouse is established, they start to call that area where the

Jenn: 00:09:35

courthouse is along the stage line.

Jenn: 00:09:37

They name it after the courthouse.

Jenn: 00:09:40

So even though it's the town of Clover Hill and you Hill Clover Hill Tavern,

Jenn: 00:09:44

Uh, and that is the location where they print all the pardon slips.

Jenn: 00:09:48

After the surrender, it officially becomes the town of Appomattox Courthouse after

Jenn: 00:09:53

the courthouse is established there.

Jenn: 00:09:55

And that is why.

Jenn: 00:09:57

When people say the surrender happened in Appomattox Courthouse, you're like,

Jenn: 00:10:00

yes, the town of Appomattox Courthouse.

Jenn: 00:10:03

Wilber McClean's house, which isn't very far from Appomattox Courthouse.

Jenn: 00:10:06

So when they said you have 90 minutes, you can just go out the

Jenn: 00:10:09

front door and it's a straight shot.

Jenn: 00:10:11

Yes.

Jenn: 00:10:12

Maybe 30 yards and it's right there to the left.

Jenn: 00:10:15

Now what's interesting about that home, it's built in 1848,

Jenn: 00:10:19

it, it has a tavern type.

Jenn: 00:10:21

Style to it if you've been to other, uh, colonial Tavern type homes.

Jenn: 00:10:27

But it was in the 1890s.

Jenn: 00:10:31

It was completely taken apart and they had finances who had come in, come

Jenn: 00:10:36

in and wanted to move it, and they were gonna move it to Washington, DC.

Jenn: 00:10:42

Uh, and make it a museum so people could go in and visit and see where the official

Jenn: 00:10:47

surrender of the Civil War took place.

Jenn: 00:10:48

So they took it apart, they took plans of it all, and it, and it

Jenn: 00:10:52

sat there and the financing fell through to actually move it.

Jenn: 00:10:55

So it sat as bricks and wood for about 50 years and people would come

Jenn: 00:11:00

and take souvenirs and take a break here, take a piece of wood here.

Jenn: 00:11:03

And the, uh, national Park Service bought it, uh, in 1939 and.

Jenn: 00:11:09

Rebuilt it to the specifications that they had, but the civil, the, uh,

Jenn: 00:11:15

world War II breaks out so it, they don't have the financing right away.

Jenn: 00:11:19

So it takes about 10 years to rebuild it.

Jenn: 00:11:21

It opens to the public in 1949.

Jenn: 00:11:24

That's right.

Jenn: 00:11:24

But it is in the same location.

Jenn: 00:11:26

It is built to the specifications.

Jenn: 00:11:28

They have gotten furniture in there to replicate what it looked like,

Jenn: 00:11:32

because we will talk about this.

Jenn: 00:11:33

The actual furniture is in other locations.

Jenn: 00:11:36

But you get the sense of what that looked like that day, what Lee felt, what grant

Jenn: 00:11:41

felt as they're walking up the steps and the people and the surrounding area.

Jenn: 00:11:46

So it is still very historically relevant and they did use the same

Jenn: 00:11:51

materials that were left behind.

Jenn: 00:11:53

So it is a very historic place

Scott: 00:11:55

to visit.

Scott: 00:11:55

Yeah.

Scott: 00:11:56

And, and the house itself, I mean, even for the time, it must have been pretty

Scott: 00:11:59

big cuz it, it's a decent sized house.

Scott: 00:12:01

Even by, by today's standards when you think of a

Jenn: 00:12:03

tavern.

Jenn: 00:12:04

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:12:05

Having to entertain and feed a.

Jenn: 00:12:07

People who come to visit, it does have that kind of feel to it, so

Scott: 00:12:11

and so it makes sense that that's where they would pick.

Scott: 00:12:14

Mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:12:15

Because it had the space.

Scott: 00:12:16

Right.

Scott: 00:12:17

Even the room, you know, the, as you kind of joke, the room where

Scott: 00:12:20

it happened, um, you go in there and, and it's a decent sized room.

Scott: 00:12:24

You could see there was probably, what, 10 ish men in there?

Scott: 00:12:27

Something like that.

Scott: 00:12:28

Yes.

Scott: 00:12:28

Yeah.

Scott: 00:12:28

That's 12 men.

Scott: 00:12:29

Mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:12:29

And.

Scott: 00:12:30

So, so it's, it's a decent sized house, very picturesque, right.

Scott: 00:12:34

With the courthouse on one end.

Scott: 00:12:36

And then, you know, the, the parking lot where we drove up and parked on the other,

Scott: 00:12:39

and then there's the McLean house and there's other little, you know, the timing

Scott: 00:12:42

when we went, you know, what was that,

Jenn: 00:12:44

April, early May.

Jenn: 00:12:45

The end of April.

Jenn: 00:12:46

So I bet it's very busy the beginning of April since that's the timeframe Oh sure.

Jenn: 00:12:51

Of when the surrender takes place.

Jenn: 00:12:53

Uh, April 9th.

Jenn: 00:12:54

1865, but we got there the end of April, which was perfect weather.

Jenn: 00:12:59

Oh it was.

Jenn: 00:12:59

And not

Scott: 00:12:59

very crowded.

Scott: 00:13:00

It was, it was gorgeous.

Scott: 00:13:01

If you're ever gonna go visit that, the springtime is, is

Scott: 00:13:03

fantastic cuz it was, everything was green, everything was in bloom.

Scott: 00:13:07

Um, some of the bugs were out a little bit for, for us that

Scott: 00:13:09

day, but it wasn't too bad.

Scott: 00:13:11

Uh, not a lot of it wasn't very crowded.

Scott: 00:13:13

And they have tons and tons of signs and historic markers.

Scott: 00:13:17

You can literally just kind of meander around.

Scott: 00:13:20

Yes.

Scott: 00:13:20

This small town, I mean now a national park.

Scott: 00:13:23

And just kind of read everything all

Jenn: 00:13:25

along the way.

Jenn: 00:13:26

There's actually a hike you can do because Lee's headquarters and

Jenn: 00:13:30

Grant's headquarters are pretty spaced opposite each other in the area, and

Jenn: 00:13:36

you can actually hike from one to the other and it kind of goes through the

Jenn: 00:13:39

town of Appomattox Courthouse and.

Jenn: 00:13:42

You see people out there hiking and walking and things like that, and

Jenn: 00:13:45

we visited other locations close.

Jenn: 00:13:47

Like we'll talk about the Confederate Cemetery we saw and

Jenn: 00:13:50

other kind of markers we saw.

Jenn: 00:13:52

But it is a really great location if you wanna spend the day.

Jenn: 00:13:56

Uh, they have picnic tables and like, if you wanna spend the day

Jenn: 00:13:58

with your family, it's a really great place to kind of walk around.

Jenn: 00:14:01

It kind of reminds me of First Battle Bull run a little bit, maybe

Jenn: 00:14:05

a very, very, very smaller scale.

Jenn: 00:14:08

Gettysburg.

Jenn: 00:14:10

Type thing.

Jenn: 00:14:11

Sure.

Jenn: 00:14:11

But it's not really a drivable trail like Yorktown or Gettysburg.

Jenn: 00:14:16

It's much more of a walking, but it is pretty much like a day trip.

Scott: 00:14:22

And I, I loved being out on the, the front steps of the McLean

Scott: 00:14:25

house because you really could, and you do a good job of kind of describing,

Scott: 00:14:29

like imagine, you know, Being here.

Scott: 00:14:32

Mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:14:32

And Lee, you know, comes up to the McLean house in his nice, clean uniform,

Scott: 00:14:37

pressed, you know, all this stuff.

Scott: 00:14:38

He gets there first.

Scott: 00:14:39

He's hanging out for, for 30 minutes or so.

Scott: 00:14:41

30 minutes, so, mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:14:42

And then up, up comes Grant, just dirty.

Scott: 00:14:45

He'd been riding mud.

Scott: 00:14:47

Mud.

Scott: 00:14:47

You can barely tell he's a general other than buying the jacket that he's wearing.

Scott: 00:14:51

And you can picture both in this setting.

Scott: 00:14:53

It's, it's one of those locations.

Scott: 00:14:55

It's really, really neat.

Scott: 00:14:56

And you can kind of really feel.

Scott: 00:14:58

What it was.

Scott: 00:14:59

What must have been like back then.

Scott: 00:15:00

Yeah.

Scott: 00:15:01

And I also imagine back then, because you go on to say, to talk about how there

Scott: 00:15:06

was, what's like 90,000 troops in area?

Scott: 00:15:08

90,000

Jenn: 00:15:09

troops.

Jenn: 00:15:09

So you think 70, about 70,000 union troops, about 30,000 confederates.

Jenn: 00:15:14

And they're.

Jenn: 00:15:16

Camping out.

Jenn: 00:15:17

I mean, they're not staying in the homes there.

Jenn: 00:15:18

They're put, they're in their makeshift tents.

Jenn: 00:15:20

So when you look at all the greenery in the area, you can imagine these

Jenn: 00:15:24

troops are camped out everywhere.

Jenn: 00:15:27

So it's very much a busy.

Jenn: 00:15:30

Hustle and bustle, and everyone's kind of watching for what's

Jenn: 00:15:33

happening in this house.

Jenn: 00:15:34

So what leads up to this, you're gonna get Richmond Falls on April

Jenn: 00:15:38

3rd, and Lee is leaving Richmond.

Jenn: 00:15:42

Richmond has fallen to the north and he's trying to make it west, and he's trying

Jenn: 00:15:47

to make it west to meet up with the armies of North Carolina and Tennessee.

Jenn: 00:15:51

And so the union is trying to cut him off before he gets there.

Jenn: 00:15:55

So if you think of Appomattox as kind of west to Richmond, Appomattox,

Jenn: 00:16:00

as I said, is on the stage line.

Jenn: 00:16:02

It's also on the railroad line.

Jenn: 00:16:04

And so Custer gets out there first on, uh, April 7th, and he's able to stop

Jenn: 00:16:09

these railroad cars that are bringing supplies to the south and he burns them.

Jenn: 00:16:14

And that's when Lee starts to realize that.

Jenn: 00:16:16

He, he's not gonna be able to meet his men.

Jenn: 00:16:18

They're trying to cut him off.

Jenn: 00:16:19

And so Grant will send him a note on the seventh saying,

Jenn: 00:16:24

would you like to surrender?

Jenn: 00:16:25

And Lee is like, not yet, but what would that look like?

Jenn: 00:16:29

It's like, not yet, but what, what, what do you have in mind?

Jenn: 00:16:32

Um, so they're kind of negotiating this.

Jenn: 00:16:34

Lee still thinks maybe there's something that he can do.

Jenn: 00:16:37

Maybe he can make it in time, but Custer and Sherman will actually completely.

Jenn: 00:16:43

Uh, cut off the Army at Appomattox and there's no way that they can rejoin.

Jenn: 00:16:49

And so they do fight a little bit.

Jenn: 00:16:51

You get some fighting on the eighth and ninth, but it's Lee who decides,

Jenn: 00:16:55

uh, even though he says he rather die a thousand deaths, it's Lee who

Jenn: 00:16:58

decides to send the word to Grant.

Jenn: 00:17:01

Uh, they bring out, you know, they, they, they have the dish towel

Jenn: 00:17:04

they give to Custer cuz that's who the actual fighting forces, uh,

Jenn: 00:17:09

long Street and Custer will meet.

Jenn: 00:17:11

Custer will stop fighting.

Jenn: 00:17:13

He will go through the line with the towel and they'll like,

Jenn: 00:17:16

let's negotiate, surrender.

Jenn: 00:17:17

They'll get the no to Lee.

Jenn: 00:17:19

Ask Lee to find a location.

Jenn: 00:17:21

They find the McLean house grant will have to ride at like 30

Jenn: 00:17:25

miles, which is crazy to meet him.

Jenn: 00:17:26

That's why he's so dirty.

Jenn: 00:17:28

And Lee gets there at one.

Jenn: 00:17:32

Grant will get there at one 30 on April 9th.

Jenn: 00:17:36

Lee has been thinking about this.

Jenn: 00:17:37

Of course, he looks very clean, very pressed in his uniform.

Jenn: 00:17:40

Grants has also been thinking about this, but he's exhausted.

Jenn: 00:17:43

He's just hopping off his horse and mud covered and when they've meet, they're

Jenn: 00:17:49

almost like in awe of each other.

Jenn: 00:17:52

They both study at West Point.

Jenn: 00:17:55

They both are skilled men.

Jenn: 00:17:57

Lee has been the commander of the Confederate forces for

Jenn: 00:18:00

all four years, five years.

Jenn: 00:18:02

Grant has not.

Jenn: 00:18:04

But Grant has proven himself as a fighter and Grant stands so in awe of Lee.

Jenn: 00:18:10

He doesn't even know what to talk about when he comes in.

Jenn: 00:18:13

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:18:13

He's like trying to make

Scott: 00:18:14

chit

Jenn: 00:18:14

chat, chit chats about their, both their military experience in

Jenn: 00:18:17

the, in the Spanish American War.

Jenn: 00:18:19

Let's talk about in the Mexican American world, let's talk

Jenn: 00:18:22

about what we are doing then.

Jenn: 00:18:23

And Lee's like, okay, um, let's talk about surrender.

Jenn: 00:18:27

So when they sit down to hash out terms of surrender, Like I said,

Jenn: 00:18:32

Lee will have one person with him.

Jenn: 00:18:33

Marshall will be with him.

Jenn: 00:18:34

Grant will have an entourage.

Jenn: 00:18:36

He has um, Sheridan.

Jenn: 00:18:38

He has, uh, Robert Todd Lincoln is with him.

Jenn: 00:18:42

He has Eli Parker, who is of the Seneca American Indian tribe is with

Jenn: 00:18:46

him, and Eli Parker is the one who's actually the scribe and the terms

Jenn: 00:18:52

that Lee is asking for, I think.

Jenn: 00:18:55

Are pretty reasonable.

Jenn: 00:18:57

And I think that's why Grant grants them to him.

Jenn: 00:18:59

He asks, most of his men are farmers from the south and they will be

Jenn: 00:19:05

going back to their farms and a lot of them own their own horses.

Jenn: 00:19:09

And the horses will be, Very valuable and important to farming.

Jenn: 00:19:14

Sure.

Jenn: 00:19:14

Right.

Jenn: 00:19:14

To putting in seeds and all the things that you need on a farm.

Jenn: 00:19:17

And so he asks as if their men own a horse, can they take the horse with them?

Jenn: 00:19:22

And Grant says that's that's fine.

Jenn: 00:19:24

And he also says, because they're farmers and because they're traveling,

Jenn: 00:19:28

can they keep their side arms again, a gun at the time is seen as a tool.

Jenn: 00:19:32

Sure.

Jenn: 00:19:33

It's seen, you know, is.

Jenn: 00:19:35

Hunting for food, all these kind of things that a gun provides.

Jenn: 00:19:39

And Grant also agrees to that.

Jenn: 00:19:42

And he asks that the Confederates sign with their pardon, that they

Jenn: 00:19:49

will never take up arms again against the Union against America.

Jenn: 00:19:54

And they can keep their horse and they can keep this item.

Jenn: 00:19:56

And that is the terms of surrender.

Scott: 00:19:58

Yeah.

Scott: 00:19:58

And if I remember correctly, I mean it was, I mean, Lincoln was.

Scott: 00:20:03

Pretty adamant about, you know, like the healing nature, right?

Scott: 00:20:08

Mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:20:09

And not being super harsh with these terms of surrender, right?

Scott: 00:20:12

And not saying like, Hey, no, I want these people in Prisoned.

Scott: 00:20:14

Mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:20:15

I don't, I want execution.

Scott: 00:20:15

Like he wasn't going for that.

Scott: 00:20:17

He wanted to kind of just finish this all off.

Scott: 00:20:20

It sounded like he didn't want to like create martyrs.

Scott: 00:20:23

Like he, he, but I think you even mentioned it in the

Scott: 00:20:25

video, he wanted to create that

Jenn: 00:20:26

healing.

Jenn: 00:20:27

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:20:27

He.

Jenn: 00:20:28

He didn't wanna try Davis for treason.

Jenn: 00:20:31

He didn't wanna try Lee for treason there, there was not gonna be some

Jenn: 00:20:34

kind of big trial and, uh, execution.

Jenn: 00:20:39

Like you said, he didn't want martyrs and he also didn't

Jenn: 00:20:41

want animosity from the south.

Jenn: 00:20:43

Yeah, he wanted the south to, I mean, people have been fighting for four years.

Jenn: 00:20:46

People have been dying.

Jenn: 00:20:48

Uh, You know, Lincoln had lost a child during this whole time and everyone

Jenn: 00:20:54

is just very exhausted, uh, war weary, and he just wanted the south to go back

Jenn: 00:21:01

and be welcomed back into the union.

Jenn: 00:21:05

I, I wouldn't say as effective citizens again, but it also is.

Jenn: 00:21:12

You can't have this underground animosity building back up again.

Jenn: 00:21:17

It has to be you're back.

Jenn: 00:21:19

You're our countrymen.

Jenn: 00:21:21

You've, you've paid your price.

Jenn: 00:21:23

You've lost so many people.

Jenn: 00:21:25

There have been entire towns where every able bodied man

Jenn: 00:21:29

of 18 to 60 had been killed.

Jenn: 00:21:32

Your economy is decimated.

Jenn: 00:21:35

I mean, that's what happens to McLean is all his money's in the confederacy.

Jenn: 00:21:40

So what, after they do the surrender in his parlor and they take all

Jenn: 00:21:43

his furniture, sudden he's broke.

Jenn: 00:21:45

He's broke.

Jenn: 00:21:46

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:21:46

So he can't even keep the house he leaves, goes back to Alexandria.

Jenn: 00:21:49

And so in, in a day, everything that all of these PE men have had and

Jenn: 00:21:55

their families is worth nothing.

Jenn: 00:21:57

And so Lincoln knows it's gonna be a big rebuilding too, as well.

Jenn: 00:22:02

So he feels like people have paid the price.

Jenn: 00:22:04

Yeah.

Scott: 00:22:05

And even I, I think that was even recognized there.

Scott: 00:22:08

And it's immortalized in different kind of reenactments and videos

Scott: 00:22:11

that we've seen out there.

Scott: 00:22:12

What is it?

Scott: 00:22:12

Gods in Generals is one of

Jenn: 00:22:13

the Yeah.

Jenn: 00:22:14

Uh, Gettysburg is the big one, but Gods in Generals North and the South.

Scott: 00:22:19

North and the South.

Scott: 00:22:20

Um, but, but even, even that, so they, one of the things that they call out both at,

Scott: 00:22:25

at the National Park and I, I, when I was making the video a couple times in videos,

Scott: 00:22:29

and they, they, they, they mentioned that, When they had finished signing the

Scott: 00:22:33

paperwork, the terms of Surrender, Lee kind of, you know, walks back outside,

Scott: 00:22:38

he gets on his horse and Grant just kind of gives him this like kind of

Scott: 00:22:42

tip of the hat, like takes his hat off.

Scott: 00:22:43

Salute.

Scott: 00:22:44

Like not an official military salute, but you know, something

Scott: 00:22:46

to acknowledge that it's done.

Scott: 00:22:49

Mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:22:50

Right.

Scott: 00:22:50

And to, and to show that respect and then

Jenn: 00:22:52

remember, All the union soldiers start to celebrate.

Jenn: 00:22:55

That's right.

Jenn: 00:22:56

They start frying their guns in the air and Grant gets mad.

Jenn: 00:22:59

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:22:59

Remember right away Stop has them, stop has them shush, has them be quiet.

Jenn: 00:23:04

Has 'em act respectful.

Jenn: 00:23:05

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:23:06

Because it, it really is a time of rebuilding.

Jenn: 00:23:09

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:23:10

G it, it is a time of exhaustion when you think about it and because again, we talk

Jenn: 00:23:16

about the lines of communication and what is happening now and how people travel.

Jenn: 00:23:21

We've talked about.

Jenn: 00:23:22

Passes to travel and people carrying paperwork with them.

Jenn: 00:23:25

They go to print out these 30,000 pardons.

Jenn: 00:23:28

Right.

Jenn: 00:23:29

We talk about 67, almost 70,000 union soldiers.

Jenn: 00:23:34

We have 30,000 federal soldiers.

Jenn: 00:23:35

Well, now that they've all surrendered, they need these passes of Pardon?

Jenn: 00:23:38

That's right.

Jenn: 00:23:39

To travel back to their homes because people are still fighting.

Jenn: 00:23:42

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:23:43

And so the Clover Tavern, which is close to the Appomattox Courthouse, they put

Jenn: 00:23:48

in a printing press in the downstairs parlor, a big tavern, and they start

Jenn: 00:23:52

printing out these 30,000 pardon passes so they can carry these passes with them.

Jenn: 00:23:56

Well, and that's

Scott: 00:23:57

also how they get the word out.

Scott: 00:23:58

That's how, and you mentioned that in the video, like.

Scott: 00:24:00

Word.

Scott: 00:24:01

There's no phones, there's no, you know, nothing like that.

Scott: 00:24:04

And that's the way they, they get the word out is, is these people

Scott: 00:24:08

walking home with this piece of paper saying, yes, the South has essentially

Scott: 00:24:11

surrendered and is my path to mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:24:13

Return home, surrender home.

Scott: 00:24:15

Um, and so that's another way that the word of the end of the

Scott: 00:24:20

civil War finally got spread was as these men were traveling home.

Jenn: 00:24:24

Yes.

Jenn: 00:24:24

And so you get very symbolic the day after.

Jenn: 00:24:28

April 10th, you see, um, Granton Lee will meet one last time, uh,

Jenn: 00:24:32

towards the one, the, the, I think it's the east end of Appomattox.

Jenn: 00:24:38

And they make a very symbolic show.

Jenn: 00:24:41

All the men of this confederacy will leave their rifles, right?

Jenn: 00:24:45

So they're allowed to keep the side arms, or they leave their rifles and they show

Jenn: 00:24:49

this, um, surrendering of their weapons.

Jenn: 00:24:52

And it's in that moment that people are, Really separating, starting

Jenn: 00:24:57

to travel back home, starting to, uh, go back to their lives.

Jenn: 00:25:01

And that's also, people acted very respectful of both sides in that moment.

Jenn: 00:25:11

Out on the other side of Appt Courthouse as a Confederate graveyard.

Jenn: 00:25:16

So on the eighth and 9th of April, there was still fighting and there were.

Jenn: 00:25:20

Soldiers who died in the vicinity of Appomattox Courthouse, and they

Jenn: 00:25:25

basically buried them where they fell.

Jenn: 00:25:28

But a year later, in 1866, these southern women decided to dig up these

Jenn: 00:25:32

graves and bury them all together.

Jenn: 00:25:34

And they had found 18 confederates in one union soldier.

Jenn: 00:25:37

That's right.

Jenn: 00:25:38

Yes.

Jenn: 00:25:38

And so they put them all in one graveyard.

Jenn: 00:25:40

So when you, when you look at my video on Instagram, there's

Jenn: 00:25:44

18 confederate flags and one.

Jenn: 00:25:47

Union flag, one American flag in this graveyard.

Jenn: 00:25:50

Uh, because they decided to bury them all side by side.

Jenn: 00:25:52

They were able to identify, I think half of them, the other half are still unknown.

Jenn: 00:25:55

Not actually

Scott: 00:25:55

in the little Village city area.

Scott: 00:25:58

It's actually, it's probably like half a mile.

Scott: 00:26:01

Mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:26:01

Maybe, maybe a mile down, maybe not even a mile.

Scott: 00:26:04

Um, but you know, you, you drive in, you actually see it on the way in.

Scott: 00:26:07

Mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:26:08

And you can come swing by and stop at it on the way out.

Scott: 00:26:11

It's actually a fairly popular Instagram reel for some reason.

Scott: 00:26:14

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:26:14

I think because it's interesting to see confederate flags on graves still.

Jenn: 00:26:19

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:26:19

I think, and there's a marker there that we also bring attention to.

Scott: 00:26:23

Yeah, I noticed that.

Scott: 00:26:24

Yeah.

Scott: 00:26:24

I'm, I'm the one who brought it

Jenn: 00:26:25

to your attention.

Jenn: 00:26:26

It's a very, again, we talk about this lost cause and this.

Jenn: 00:26:30

Southern and I, I wanna talk a little bit about this cuz I think Appomattox

Jenn: 00:26:34

Courthouse, um, visitor Center does a very good job of telling the story of

Jenn: 00:26:39

why federal soldiers are fighting, why southern soldiers are fighting, because

Jenn: 00:26:44

you're gonna get this still today.

Jenn: 00:26:46

These two points of views states right?

Jenn: 00:26:50

Uh, enslavement.

Jenn: 00:26:51

What, what are we fighting?

Jenn: 00:26:52

Who's, what are people fighting for?

Jenn: 00:26:54

What's the cause of the Civil War?

Jenn: 00:26:56

And this marker talks about, um, after the Southern soldiers fought bravely

Jenn: 00:27:02

for four years, for their rights of their country, uh, Lee surrendered.

Jenn: 00:27:09

And it, it, it really skews the numbers.

Jenn: 00:27:11

Like, oh yeah, it's

Scott: 00:27:12

9,000 men.

Scott: 00:27:13

It's definitely, you know, Old, old Southern

Jenn: 00:27:16

leaning.

Jenn: 00:27:16

Yes, for sure.

Jenn: 00:27:18

So, and then it looks like they've taken off the whole bottom line that talks

Jenn: 00:27:21

about Grant and how many men Grant had they just kind of like have stripped it.

Jenn: 00:27:26

Yeah.

Scott: 00:27:27

And it's not like it was weather worn because this

Scott: 00:27:29

is, this is a metal sign.

Scott: 00:27:31

These, these, this was intentional.

Scott: 00:27:33

Somebody like taken off.

Scott: 00:27:33

Yeah, taken off.

Jenn: 00:27:34

You could still read it.

Jenn: 00:27:35

It was interesting.

Jenn: 00:27:35

So that's interesting.

Jenn: 00:27:36

I, I think it's important to keep those markers up.

Jenn: 00:27:39

Sure.

Jenn: 00:27:39

Because I think it's important to show how people.

Jenn: 00:27:43

Even still wanted to protect the story and protect their ideals

Jenn: 00:27:47

and what they were fighting for.

Jenn: 00:27:48

And I think Appomattox does a good job.

Jenn: 00:27:53

They talk about why federal soldiers fought.

Jenn: 00:27:55

You got a lot of recent immigrants who joined the union.

Jenn: 00:27:59

They come to America for a reason.

Jenn: 00:28:01

All these immigrants are coming in the 1860s because American liberty

Jenn: 00:28:05

and independence and prosperity.

Jenn: 00:28:07

So they think if they fight for the union, They're gonna be able to

Jenn: 00:28:11

preserve that, what they came for.

Jenn: 00:28:13

Oh, right, okay.

Jenn: 00:28:14

They don't wanna lose that.

Jenn: 00:28:16

Interesting.

Jenn: 00:28:16

And so the whole point of keeping America together is all of

Jenn: 00:28:20

this commerce works together.

Jenn: 00:28:23

All of this American trade and resources, they all work together.

Jenn: 00:28:28

And immigrants who have come here to partake in that, don't want to lose that.

Jenn: 00:28:33

And then they have white Confederate soldiers fought and they talk about

Jenn: 00:28:37

a crucial motivator for many soldiers was, uh, defense of their homes and

Jenn: 00:28:41

their families against northern armies.

Jenn: 00:28:43

And whether or not they owned enslaved, they did believe

Jenn: 00:28:49

in, uh, still a hierarchy.

Jenn: 00:28:52

There was still a hierarchy in their minds, even if they're not

Jenn: 00:28:54

owning enslaved, that there was a supremacy, uh, based on race.

Jenn: 00:28:59

So, but they, I think, and I think it's true that most.

Jenn: 00:29:05

Southern soldiers are not enslavers.

Jenn: 00:29:07

They don't own enslaved.

Jenn: 00:29:08

Yeah, they weren't, not all of 'em were that rich and, and

Jenn: 00:29:10

they're fighting because their families are coming under attack.

Jenn: 00:29:15

But we, we do know that enslavement is the cause of the Civil war.

Jenn: 00:29:21

Because, and even though Lincoln, and they make a point to say this, he did not

Jenn: 00:29:25

advocate for the abolitionist slavery.

Jenn: 00:29:28

So even though Lincoln did not advocate for that running as president,

Jenn: 00:29:31

he never would've won if Sure.

Jenn: 00:29:33

What is happening is he's advocating for the.

Jenn: 00:29:37

No spread of enslavement.

Jenn: 00:29:40

So what's going on with the Missouri Compromise in Kansas is they want to

Jenn: 00:29:45

spread enslavement to other states because it's a way to have free labor.

Jenn: 00:29:50

It's a way for commerce to work.

Jenn: 00:29:52

And uh, Lincoln wants to stop that because it does hurt the economy

Jenn: 00:29:57

when you can't pay laborers.

Jenn: 00:29:59

Sure.

Jenn: 00:30:00

And you get all these immigrants coming to America and they are.

Jenn: 00:30:04

Laborers, right?

Jenn: 00:30:05

And so that's what Lincoln is, stopping the spread of enslavement.

Jenn: 00:30:10

And then it will, and then you're gonna have the southern states who

Jenn: 00:30:13

write their constitutions putting enslavement as part of their cause.

Jenn: 00:30:18

So it does become more so the cause of the Civil War.

Jenn: 00:30:24

And then Lincoln will see.

Jenn: 00:30:27

The strength behind that, right.

Jenn: 00:30:29

And the strength behind the Emancipation Proclamation and the strength behind

Jenn: 00:30:33

enlisting, uh, uh, black soldiers.

Jenn: 00:30:35

And it really gets full momentum during the Civil War.

Jenn: 00:30:39

And I think the, uh, a Mads Courthouse does a very good job of

Jenn: 00:30:42

telling that story because it's.

Jenn: 00:30:45

An honest

Scott: 00:30:46

story.

Scott: 00:30:47

Yeah.

Scott: 00:30:47

It's not, it's it's not leaning one way or the other.

Scott: 00:30:49

Not leaning one way or the other.

Scott: 00:30:50

This is how it

Jenn: 00:30:51

was.

Jenn: 00:30:51

Mm-hmm.

Jenn: 00:30:51

And I then people can really understand why you can still, uh, needle in

Jenn: 00:30:58

those kind of beliefs that are still kind of fought against today.

Jenn: 00:31:02

Right.

Jenn: 00:31:02

Uh, you can still see where that comes from.

Scott: 00:31:04

That's interesting.

Scott: 00:31:05

Cause I had never.

Scott: 00:31:06

I had probably heard it right again, but not, not being the

Scott: 00:31:09

person that latched on a history.

Scott: 00:31:10

Mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:31:10

As I was going through my younger year education, I had never kind of

Scott: 00:31:14

considered that Lincoln was would on the economic side of the slavery debate

Scott: 00:31:20

back then was, Hey, I want these people coming to our country so that they

Scott: 00:31:24

can earn a living and help build this nation and this, that and the other.

Scott: 00:31:29

And that wouldn't happen if slavery continued to spread.

Scott: 00:31:33

Mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:31:33

Because that's Essent, you know.

Scott: 00:31:35

Enslavement is, is free labor.

Scott: 00:31:37

Mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:31:37

You know, quote unquote.

Scott: 00:31:38

And so that, to your point, that is kind of counteracting, you know, being

Scott: 00:31:43

able to grow at a true workforce mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:31:47

Um, for people coming in.

Scott: 00:31:48

So I, I hadn't really considered that, that piece of it.

Scott: 00:31:51

And obviously that's one.

Scott: 00:31:53

Aspect Sure.

Scott: 00:31:54

Of the entire debate.

Scott: 00:31:55

Sure.

Scott: 00:31:56

But that was probably the, the genesis of some of it from the econo

Scott: 00:31:59

economic side, all of the money.

Scott: 00:32:00

Mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:32:00

You, you follow the money.

Scott: 00:32:01

Mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:32:02

And then from there, people start digging in their heels and they're like, well,

Scott: 00:32:05

we're just gonna write it into ours.

Scott: 00:32:06

State constitution.

Scott: 00:32:07

Yep.

Scott: 00:32:07

Slavery is okay.

Scott: 00:32:08

And you know, this, that and the other.

Scott: 00:32:10

Um, so it's.

Scott: 00:32:11

That's interesting to kind of, I've always heard that.

Scott: 00:32:14

Mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:32:14

But that's, that's an interesting way of kind of clarifying that, that

Jenn: 00:32:17

piece of it.

Jenn: 00:32:18

Yeah, and I, I think Appomattox, that's why I really appreciate

Jenn: 00:32:20

Appomattox Courthouse, is they're really preserving, they're not

Jenn: 00:32:25

really pushing one way or the other.

Jenn: 00:32:27

They're showing what actually happened and how those ideas.

Jenn: 00:32:30

Slowly formed and got stronger throughout the Civil War and I,

Jenn: 00:32:36

that is actually what did happen, and so I really appreciated that.

Jenn: 00:32:44

We talked a little bit about the furniture in the McLean house.

Jenn: 00:32:46

Yeah, so we visited.

Jenn: 00:32:51

Uh, the National History Museum at the Smithsonian in Washington DC and the

Jenn: 00:32:55

chairs from the surrender are there.

Jenn: 00:32:59

The chair that Lee sat in, the chair, that grant sat in or at the Smithsonian

Jenn: 00:33:03

in DC there's recreation of those chairs.

Jenn: 00:33:06

They look almost identical.

Jenn: 00:33:07

Yep.

Jenn: 00:33:08

In the in app, in the McLean House.

Jenn: 00:33:11

In Appomattox Courthouse.

Jenn: 00:33:12

And the table.

Jenn: 00:33:14

Uh, I think there's a table in Chicago and there's a table in the actual

Jenn: 00:33:20

Appomattox courthouse, which were the actual tables that were there.

Jenn: 00:33:24

Now, when the surrender actually takes place, you get Custer is

Jenn: 00:33:30

probably the worst of this union.

Jenn: 00:33:33

Soldiers buying furniture or just taking furniture from the McLean house.

Jenn: 00:33:37

Sure, yeah.

Jenn: 00:33:37

Soldiers being soldiers, they take the chairs.

Jenn: 00:33:40

Custer will take the table and the.

Jenn: 00:33:44

The truce flag.

Jenn: 00:33:45

Yeah, the dish towel that he gets.

Jenn: 00:33:46

And people will take the chairs.

Jenn: 00:33:48

B, buy the chairs, and pretty much McLean's house

Jenn: 00:33:51

has cleaned out a furniture.

Jenn: 00:33:53

Everybody just takes stuff.

Jenn: 00:33:55

That poor guy, so.

Jenn: 00:33:56

So this is also another reason why he leaves, because now his house

Jenn: 00:34:00

has been stripped of furniture.

Jenn: 00:34:02

And his money's worth nothing.

Jenn: 00:34:05

And so he goes back to Alexandria to make a living.

Jenn: 00:34:07

The house will go into foreclosure.

Jenn: 00:34:08

We talked about this and then it gets taken apart.

Jenn: 00:34:11

But, uh, when Custer Custer's killed at the Battle of the Big

Jenn: 00:34:14

Horn and his wife will go on a campaign to build up his name.

Jenn: 00:34:18

That's why we know Custer so well today.

Jenn: 00:34:20

Cuz his wife really did a good job of interesting building his interest.

Jenn: 00:34:23

Uh, she will donate the, the flag and the table back to the Smithsonian.

Jenn: 00:34:31

Upon her death.

Jenn: 00:34:32

So you can see the truth flag in the Smithsonian.

Jenn: 00:34:35

Yep.

Scott: 00:34:36

And then the, the desk is at, the

Jenn: 00:34:37

desk is at, uh, appro Appomattox Courthouse.

Jenn: 00:34:40

So if you wanna visit those things, that's, we're there.

Jenn: 00:34:44

And we talked about Eli Parker a little bit.

Jenn: 00:34:48

Yeah.

Jenn: 00:34:48

He was the Seneca Soldier who was there, uh, from the American af,

Jenn: 00:34:54

American Indian tribe that was there.

Jenn: 00:34:55

He had a conversation with.

Jenn: 00:34:58

We, yeah.

Scott: 00:34:59

You liked you,

Jenn: 00:34:59

you liked that.

Jenn: 00:35:00

I liked it because, uh, it kind of reminds me a little bit of

Jenn: 00:35:03

what the surgeon said with Reagan.

Jenn: 00:35:05

Oh, yeah.

Jenn: 00:35:05

You know, today, sir, we're all republicans a as Eli Parker and,

Jenn: 00:35:10

uh, Marshall are, are working out the terms, the surrender.

Jenn: 00:35:13

They're writing it.

Jenn: 00:35:13

Yeah, they're, they're describing it all out.

Jenn: 00:35:14

They're describing it out.

Jenn: 00:35:15

Lee asks, uh, Parker, you know, if he's American Indian?

Jenn: 00:35:19

He says, yes, I'm of the Seneca tribe.

Jenn: 00:35:21

And he goes, it's good.

Jenn: 00:35:21

It's good to have one true American here.

Jenn: 00:35:24

And he responds to Lisa.

Jenn: 00:35:26

We are all Americans.

Jenn: 00:35:28

And I just loved that.

Scott: 00:35:30

Yeah.

Scott: 00:35:30

And, and especially for that time period as well.

Scott: 00:35:33

Like, it, it gives you just a little bit more insight into the mind that

Scott: 00:35:37

was, you know, general Lee, right?

Scott: 00:35:40

Like, that's just not a comment that you would expect in, in,

Scott: 00:35:44

in that historical setting.

Scott: 00:35:45

And that's maybe just me being un uneducated there, but I don't

Scott: 00:35:48

think that sentiment was common

Jenn: 00:35:50

back then.

Jenn: 00:35:51

No.

Jenn: 00:35:51

And I don't think so either.

Jenn: 00:35:52

And I think, again, four years of fighting really.

Jenn: 00:35:57

Of war weariness.

Jenn: 00:35:59

What are we fighting for?

Jenn: 00:36:00

What are we killing each other for?

Jenn: 00:36:01

I think those kind of sentiments are coming through.

Scott: 00:36:05

Yeah, it was, it was a ton of fun.

Scott: 00:36:06

It's easy for kids too, right?

Scott: 00:36:08

If you ever wanna bring kids there.

Scott: 00:36:10

We, I mean, we just kind of cut 'em loose outside.

Scott: 00:36:13

Um, there's stuff you can see behind the McLean House and Slaves quarters

Scott: 00:36:16

kind of showing your classic, that kind of era, the separated

Scott: 00:36:19

kitchen, separated quarters mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:36:21

And, and things like that.

Scott: 00:36:22

Um, but other buildings to see, you know, the.

Scott: 00:36:25

The gift shop was great.

Scott: 00:36:27

Um, they had like, uh, you could go in and see like the prison, right?

Scott: 00:36:30

You know, where they would, they mm-hmm.

Scott: 00:36:31

They held, you know, certain folks behind the courthouse.

Scott: 00:36:33

Behind the courthouse.

Scott: 00:36:34

The general store, general store and all sorts of things to just

Scott: 00:36:37

kind of walk around and do.

Scott: 00:36:39

Great afternoon.

Scott: 00:36:40

There's not much too close to there.

Scott: 00:36:42

So we actually have another video that, that I made while we were

Scott: 00:36:45

there, kind of tips and tricks of, of visiting Appomattox Courthouse.

Scott: 00:36:48

So be on the lookout for that.

Scott: 00:36:49

To, to come out on the Walk with History YouTube channel soon.

Scott: 00:36:52

But for those listening, thank you for listening to the Talk with History

Scott: 00:36:55

podcasts, and please reach out to us at our website, talk with history.com.

Scott: 00:36:59

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Scott: 00:37:01

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Scott: 00:37:05

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Scott: 00:37:06

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Scott: 00:37:08

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Scott: 00:37:13

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Scott: 00:37:14

Thank