Exploring Vicksburg: Monuments, Memories, and Ironclad Ships

Scott: 00:00:11

,: 1863

Scott: 00:00:18

General Ulysses S.

Scott: 00:00:20

Grant's determination was palpable among the ranks.

Scott: 00:00:22

The soldiers had been marching for weeks, engaging in skirmishes that had tested their resolve.

Scott: 00:00:29

The previous day's battle at Champion Hill had been feared.

Scott: 00:00:31

Fierce, bloody, they had lost good men, but successfully pushed Pemberton's forces back.

Scott: 00:00:39

Grant's strategy was bold.

Scott: 00:00:41

He had cut off their supply lines, forcing the army to live off the land.

Scott: 00:00:44

As they pushed towards the confederate stronghold, some of the men whispered concerns.

Scott: 00:00:50

But the fire in Grant's eyes was unmistakable.

Scott: 00:00:52

He was unwavering, focused solely on taking Vicksburg and splitting the confederacy in two.

Scott: 00:00:59

As they neared the city, the sounds of artillery grew louder.

Scott: 00:01:02

Pemberton's army had retreated behind Vicksburg's defenses.

Scott: 00:01:06

Grant was preparing for an assault.

Scott: 00:01:08

But many officers couldn't shake the feeling that this might turn into a prolonged engagement.

Scott: 00:01:13

The steep bluffs and heavy fortifications made a direct attack, daunting whatever was to come.

Scott: 00:01:20

The Union forces were ready.

Scott: 00:01:22

The men were tired, but resolute.

Scott: 00:01:24

They all understood the importance of this campaign.

Scott: 00:01:26

Taking Vicksburg meant controlling the Mississippi.

Scott: 00:01:29

It could be the turning point of the war.

Scott: 00:01:33

As they prepared to move on to the city the next day, a sense of anticipation and trepidation filled the air.

Scott: 00:01:39

The fate of the nation hung in the balance, and the Union soldiers knew they were on the cusp of a pivotal moment in history.

Scott: 00:01:54

Welcome to talk with history.

Scott: 00:01:56

I am your host, Scott, here with my wife and historian, Jen.

Jen: 00:01:58

Hello.

Scott: 00:01:59

On this podcast, we give you insights to our history inspired world travels YouTube channel journey, and examine history through deeper conversations with the curious, the explorers, and the history lovers out there.

Scott: 00:02:13

Now, Jim, we're just jumping right into it because we're doing two podcast episodes on Vicksburg in a row.

Scott: 00:02:20

And the last one we did, we covered the history of Vicksburg, the city proper, kind of.

Scott: 00:02:26

I called it beyond the battlefield because a lot of these places will get known for what when we learn about them.

Scott: 00:02:33

Kind of the first time we learn about a place, oftentimes like Vicksburg is in history class in high school.

Jen: 00:02:39

Sure.

Jen: 00:02:40

So that was like, if you were going to visit Vicksburg and stay more than just one day and do more than just the battlefield, other things you could see in the city, and other historical contributions that Vicksburg has made that maybe you are not aware of, that were pretty cool.

Scott: 00:02:55

Yeah.

Scott: 00:02:55

So if youre driving to Vicksburg or you're planning a trip and you're doing some research, and you're listening to this episode.

Scott: 00:03:02

The episode just before this in your podcast player will be that specific podcast episode about visiting Vicksburg, the city proper.

Scott: 00:03:10

So we're here to talk about the battlefield today.

Jen: 00:03:17

So what is Vicksburg really known for, especially for us non Mississippians who just know Vicksburg for the siege of Vicksburg.

Scott: 00:03:26

Yeah.

Scott: 00:03:27

And I didn't realize how vital Vicksburg was.

Scott: 00:03:31

I mean, President Lincoln said it's basically that in Gettysburg.

Scott: 00:03:36

And really, I mean, he emphasized more Vicksburg because of its strategic, logistical location of its place on the Mississippi.

Jen: 00:03:44

Yeah.

Jen: 00:03:45

So Vicksburg is geographically needed to win the war.

Jen: 00:03:50

Gettysburg just happened to be the farthest place the south had advanced, and that was where the north was able to repel them.

Jen: 00:03:58

So that didn't have a significant geographic place other than that, as far north the south got.

Jen: 00:04:06

Now, Vicksburg, I mean, Lincoln called it the key.

Jen: 00:04:12

Jefferson called it the nail.

Jen: 00:04:14

Like, they both refer to it as a pinnacle part of their strategy for each of their campaigns.

Jen: 00:04:23

It's interesting how now, today, Vicksburg has, really encompasses that key idea, because you'll see the emblem of the key by the name Vicksburg in the city.

Jen: 00:04:34

You'll see that all around.

Scott: 00:04:35

I didn't realize that.

Jen: 00:04:36

Yeah, it's on maps.

Scott: 00:04:38

I mean, so much so that there's a quote in the museum at the visitor center from Abraham Lincoln.

Scott: 00:04:43

They have a little display of him talking to grant and Secretary of War Edward Stanton, and he says, vicksburg is the key.

Scott: 00:04:50

And essentially, this war won't stop until we have that key in our pocket.

Jen: 00:04:54

Yes.

Scott: 00:04:54

That's how important this place is.

Jen: 00:04:56

And why is it the key?

Jen: 00:04:57

Because it is the last stronghold on.

Scott: 00:04:59

The Mississippi for the Confederacy.

Jen: 00:05:01

For the Confederacy.

Jen: 00:05:02

So, basically, because of the logistics of what the Mississippi river means to get troops and basically to get the ironclads behind battles, this is the last stronghold.

Jen: 00:05:14

So it's a choke point.

Jen: 00:05:15

Like, you can't get your ships down past it.

Jen: 00:05:17

So it's the key.

Jen: 00:05:20

When you think of unlocking the key, it's unlocking the key to the Mississippi.

Scott: 00:05:23

Yeah.

Scott: 00:05:24

They also called it, like, the Gibraltar of the Civil War.

Scott: 00:05:28

And not only is it logistically important, but it also, obviously, if you control the Mississippi, you're splitting off the east and west states of the Mississippi, so you control any way for them to pass back and forth between them.

Scott: 00:05:41

So where was the Union and Confederacy at with this?

Scott: 00:05:45

What's the lead up to Vicksburg?

Jen: 00:05:52

So the siege of Vicksburg is basically May 18 to July 4.

Jen: 00:05:56

But before that, Grant is making his way to that general vicinity.

Jen: 00:06:03

He's marching south.

Jen: 00:06:05

He's taking areas as he advances to Vicksburg.

Jen: 00:06:09

And you have to think of, Vicksburg is on the westernmost edge of Mississippi and pretty far south.

Jen: 00:06:15

So he's coming down through the middle of Mississippi from Tennessee, and he's pushing his way, and then he's encompassing the city.

Jen: 00:06:26

Confederates have fallen back, and they're digging in at Vicksburg.

Jen: 00:06:32

And lieutenant General Pemberton is getting conflicting orders from his superior.

Jen: 00:06:40

He's told to retreat, to take his men and retreat north and live to fight another day.

Jen: 00:06:45

But Davis makes it very clear that you've got to hold Vicksburg because he believes in the strategic geography, and he.

Scott: 00:06:53

Knew what he was talking about.

Jen: 00:06:54

And Pemberton, even though he's in Confederate, he's northern born.

Jen: 00:06:59

He's born in Pennsylvania, and he understands what it would look like for him to run away at this moment.

Jen: 00:07:06

He knows he would never.

Jen: 00:07:08

He would never live that down if he didn't hold ground.

Jen: 00:07:12

And he also is a west Point grad, so he understands battle and fighting.

Jen: 00:07:17

So he really knew as much as his superiors are telling him, you can retreat, and it's okay.

Jen: 00:07:23

He knows, as a soldier, this is an important spot, and my commander in chief is telling me to stay here.

Scott: 00:07:33

Well, and it's a reminder of the time that their livelihood, especially for these very senior officers, their livelihood was tied to, oftentimes, their success or failures in battle.

Scott: 00:07:46

Right.

Scott: 00:07:47

That reputation followed them for the rest of their lives.

Jen: 00:07:50

Yes.

Scott: 00:07:51

And their true.

Scott: 00:07:53

Not only their individual, but their family livelihood.

Scott: 00:07:56

Like, they just wouldn't get the support if they were to.

Scott: 00:07:59

To run away, to retreat, to fail miserably, et cetera.

Scott: 00:08:03

Now, again, to set the picture, the Confederacy is dug in.

Scott: 00:08:08

They're defending Vicksburg.

Scott: 00:08:09

So they're essentially facing outward.

Scott: 00:08:11

They're surrounding the city with their backs towards the Mississippi, and they're facing outwards with the union pressing in conducting that 47 day siege.

Jen: 00:08:19

Yes.

Jen: 00:08:20

And so I equate it in the video to like a sea, like a backwards sea against the Mississippi, where Vicksburg is inside the sea.

Jen: 00:08:29

The Confederacy is right around Vicksburg, and then the union is digging in around them.

Jen: 00:08:34

And it's very much a fortification fight.

Jen: 00:08:38

Like, people are digging in, and they're digging in different types of doing readouts.

Jen: 00:08:42

They're doing different types of dig ins.

Jen: 00:08:45

Like, a readout is more of a square.

Jen: 00:08:47

They're doing triangles.

Jen: 00:08:48

They're doing different kinds of digging, and.

Scott: 00:08:50

It'S not flat country there.

Scott: 00:08:51

Right?

Scott: 00:08:51

So Vicksburg is actually up on the.

Scott: 00:08:53

A little bit of a bluff above the Mississippi.

Scott: 00:08:56

It's very hilly.

Scott: 00:08:57

When you're driving through the national battlefield, it's not easy to reign.

Jen: 00:09:02

No.

Jen: 00:09:02

And they actually say Vicksburg is the highest point from New Orleans all the way up to Memphis.

Scott: 00:09:10

Oh, wow.

Jen: 00:09:11

Vicksburg is the highest point.

Jen: 00:09:12

So they call it the hill, like you're fighting this hill.

Jen: 00:09:15

So, basically, it really was against the union.

Jen: 00:09:19

The Confederacy has the high ground, and the union is fighting up towards it.

Jen: 00:09:23

That's why after Grant tries twice to attack, and he's pushed back twice, and he says, okay, we're just gonna wait him out.

Jen: 00:09:33

And that's why it becomes a siege, because he knows that it takes 40 days.

Jen: 00:09:37

I think it's like 47, 47 days, one month, two weeks, two days.

Jen: 00:09:41

And he knows that he's just gonna have to wait out supplies, because they have the iron clads on either side of Vicksburg.

Scott: 00:09:49

Someone misses.

Jen: 00:09:50

They have them all surrounded.

Jen: 00:09:51

And so basically, they can just wait it.

Jen: 00:09:53

Wait about.

Scott: 00:09:54

I mean, that's what you're doing in a siege is you're essentially trying to cut off any supplies coming inbound, so that you're trying to just starve them out, and you wait them out for long enough, and then eventually they have to give up, because if they can't get any food supplies in and they can't supply their own food inside of the siege lines, then that's it.

Jen: 00:10:12

And what was interesting is, like I said, these ironclads just bombard the city.

Jen: 00:10:17

And the difference between the Union and the Confederacy is the union like, to.

Jen: 00:10:21

To operate as batteries, and batteries is you get, like, more than five to seven cannons in one location and hit one location, Confederates like to spread out their cannons, but they weren't as effective as what the union was doing.

Jen: 00:10:36

So you have a bunch of civilians.

Jen: 00:10:38

The Union gunboats lobbied over 22,000 shells, they said, at the town, and because of that, suitable housing was reduced.

Scott: 00:10:45

Right.

Jen: 00:10:45

They're hitting all of these buildings.

Jen: 00:10:47

So there's a ridge between the main town, and this is lodging.

Jen: 00:10:52

Over 500 caves are dug in, and they're known as bomb proofs.

Jen: 00:10:57

And you can see in the visitor center how they tried to make these caves look kind of like homes.

Jen: 00:11:03

Right?

Jen: 00:11:03

They put out carpets and hung stuff up on them, put beds in there, because that's basically where these people lived while they're being bombarded by all this artillery.

Jen: 00:11:12

For those 40 days.

Jen: 00:11:13

40 plus days.

Scott: 00:11:20

If you watch our video, we have a very good video walking you through the highlights of the battlefield.

Scott: 00:11:26

And it's an amazing battlefield.

Scott: 00:11:27

It's right up there with the Gettysburgs and the Shilohs.

Scott: 00:11:30

It's absolutely worth visiting because you can spend almost a full day there.

Scott: 00:11:35

And we did.

Jen: 00:11:41

So there's over 13,000 historic monuments.

Scott: 00:11:44

That's crazy.

Jen: 00:11:45

And there's a 16 miles road tour reminiscent of Gettysburg or Shiloh.

Scott: 00:11:50

That's beautiful.

Scott: 00:11:51

Isn't it: 1800

Jen: 00:11:53

Hundred acres.

Jen: 00:11:54

When you think it's huge, it's huge.

Jen: 00:11:56

, but the battlefield is over: 1800

Jen: 00:12:01

And like I said, they're taking both siege lines.

Jen: 00:12:04

So that's what the driving tour takes you.

Jen: 00:12:06

Takes you on the Union line first, and then you lap around and do the confederate line.

Jen: 00:12:10

But what's really neat about it is all these states put up monuments that fought in the battle of Vicksburg.

Jen: 00:12:23

And as you'll drive the Union lines, you'll see these Union states put up monuments.

Jen: 00:12:29

And as you drive the confederate line, you see the Confederate States put up monuments.

Jen: 00:12:32

And the monuments are so neat and descriptive, and it was just really cool to stop.

Jen: 00:12:38

Plus, they have little information signs that point out the different kind of fortifications and what kind of guns were there.

Jen: 00:12:45

And they're blue signs for union and red signs for Confederacy.

Jen: 00:12:49

So you really get a grasp of the magnitude of it all.

Scott: 00:12:54

Yeah.

Scott: 00:12:54

And there's a couple really key spots that they've maintained very, very well that kind of give you the vista of what the battlefield looked like across the siege lines, over these hilly terrain, or from one of the high bluffs in the northern part of the park.

Scott: 00:13:09

I didn't quite know what to expect with this, because I just come in with zero expectations.

Scott: 00:13:15

I haven't done.

Scott: 00:13:15

You're the one doing the research.

Scott: 00:13:17

And so when I got there, I was very pleasantly surprised.

Scott: 00:13:20

One of the monuments that I really liked, I think it was Missouri, with kind of the brother versus brother.

Jen: 00:13:25

Yes.

Jen: 00:13:26

So Missouri is very neat because not only is it a neat monument, but it's on that cusp between.

Jen: 00:13:32

You're turning the corner between the north lines and the confederate lines, and you have the Missouri monument, which is like the brother versus brother monument.

Jen: 00:13:40

Now, you have what they call border states, and they were the states that were along the borders between the north and the south.

Jen: 00:13:46

Border states would be like Missouri or West Virginia.

Jen: 00:13:51

That's where you had people from both sides.

Jen: 00:13:53

Kentucky.

Jen: 00:13:54

Right.

Jen: 00:13:54

So when we do Hatfields, McCoys right?

Jen: 00:13:56

Like this.

Jen: 00:13:57

This civil war loyalty is what starts the whole feud between the Hatfields and McCoys.

Jen: 00:14:02

Right.

Jen: 00:14:02

And they're both from the same area.

Jen: 00:14:04

So you're getting these border states where brother versus brother is fighting.

Jen: 00:14:08

It depends on where your loyalty is at, where you go.

Jen: 00:14:11

And that monument is one monument with one middle connector, but on each side is depicting the Union, and the other side depicts the Confederacy.

Jen: 00:14:21

And that's where you really get this idea of neighbor versus neighbor, brother versus brotherhood, which is going to be a theme throughout the entire civil war.

Jen: 00:14:29

Even in Gettysburg, they have the friend.

Jen: 00:14:31

The friend monument, where the two generals were friends, and Pemmerton and Grant, when they talk about their terms of surrender, they reminisce about West Point.

Scott: 00:14:42

Yeah, there was a lot.

Scott: 00:14:43

It seemed like there was a little bit more emphasis on that here at Vicksburg, or at least I just noticed it.

Scott: 00:14:48

More of.

Scott: 00:14:49

They were constantly pointing out that, hey, these guys used to serve together, or they went to school together or whatever it was.

Scott: 00:14:56

I really did enjoy just the drive itself.

Scott: 00:15:00

You're curving around, and you're looking around to see what's around the next corner.

Scott: 00:15:03

And we saw people out there walking their dog, which, man, it was hot out there.

Scott: 00:15:07

So God bless those people, because when we were there, it was very, very hot.

Jen: 00:15:12

And you can imagine it was probably hot for the real fighters at the time because it was May to July, may to July.

Jen: 00:15:19

reserve the battlefield until: 1899

Jen: 00:15:28

And so that's where you get these ideas of legends becoming fact.

Jen: 00:15:34

What really happened?

Jen: 00:15:36

And the monuments are depicting that, and they get very grandiose.

Jen: 00:15:41

It's a great place to have these kind of statues because you learn history of people who were there, but they're depicting a time where I think people really want that memory to be cemented.

Jen: 00:15:52

One of those monuments that's pretty famous there is the Illinois monument.

Scott: 00:15:56

That's the big kind of domed building.

Jen: 00:15:58

Big domed building.

Jen: 00:15:59

And that monument, it's beautiful.

Jen: 00:16:02

It was dedicated in: 1906

Jen: 00:16:04

It honors all of the Union soldiers from Illinois, which they say made up.

Jen: 00:16:08

20% of the soldiers from the union at Vicksburg were from Illinois.

Jen: 00:16:13

Now, what I didn't realize is each step, there's 47 steps for 47 days of the seats.

Scott: 00:16:18

Oh, I didn't realize that.

Jen: 00:16:19

So it was a lot of steps going up.

Jen: 00:16:21

And then when you get inside, nothing warlike is depicted in there except the.

Scott: 00:16:26

State seal on the floor.

Scott: 00:16:28

I think I saw famous Illinoisans.

Scott: 00:16:31

Abraham Lincoln was grant from Illinois?

Jen: 00:16:34

No, he's from Ohio.

Scott: 00:16:35

Ohio.

Jen: 00:16:36

But he was on there because he.

Scott: 00:16:37

Was part of, he was leading the forces.

Jen: 00:16:40

But it's like a rotunda, the pantheon kind of idea, the Roman.

Jen: 00:16:45

And it's beautiful.

Jen: 00:16:46

And it's right beside the only structure that survived the civil war, that survived that Vicksburg campaign, which is where the Illinois camped in.

Jen: 00:16:57

And it's called the White House.

Jen: 00:16:59

And it's really, it was the Shirley house, which there were two people there, James and Adeline Shirley, and he was the sheriff in town.

Jen: 00:17:07

Now, they were both northern born, but they had three children, all born in Vicksburg.

Jen: 00:17:12

And they were slaveholders, but they maintained their union allegiance.

Jen: 00:17:17

So they preserved their home, although they were basically kicked out of their home.

Jen: 00:17:21

And they dug into a cave.

Jen: 00:17:23

But the men used their home for a hospital.

Jen: 00:17:27

And then you see a picture of all the tents around it.

Jen: 00:17:29

So they didn't destroy their home.

Jen: 00:17:31

And their home is still preserved.

Jen: 00:17:33

It's right beside that Illinois monument.

Jen: 00:17:35

So you see a building that was a witness building, if you want to say that was there during the battle of Vicksburg.

Jen: 00:17:42

And then you see the monument that was built in honor of the men from Illinois who fought there, and they're right beside each other.

Jen: 00:17:49

So it's a very good contrast there on the battlefield for you to see just how people preserve and remember the past.

Scott: 00:17:56

Yeah, it was really neat.

Scott: 00:17:57

And I think that was actually when I think park ranger drove up to us a little behind the scenes here, and he drove up to us, do you guys have a permit?

Scott: 00:18:04

And we were like, well, we're just doing this for YouTube, where I wouldn't call ourselves professionals here.

Jen: 00:18:10

He asked, well, you can't be doing this for profit.

Jen: 00:18:13

And so shout out out there to all of our listeners.

Jen: 00:18:16

We don't make a profit yet.

Scott: 00:18:18

We've started making a little bit on Adsense on YouTube.

Scott: 00:18:22

We're not making anything on the podcast, although that's not true now.

Scott: 00:18:26

We do have support, folks supporting us over@thehistoryroadtrip.com.

Scott: 00:18:30

because you can support us over there.

Scott: 00:18:32

So that was literally just recently.

Scott: 00:18:34

But there's also a product that goes with that.

Scott: 00:18:36

But, yeah, it just, I guess it was flattering that he thought he was like, oh, you can't do it for profit.

Scott: 00:18:40

I was like, well, don't worry about that there, sir.

Jen: 00:18:43

We'll let you know when those tides change.

Jen: 00:18:50

But another really cool thing to see here is the USS Cairo.

Scott: 00:18:55

That was neat.

Jen: 00:18:58

So the Cairo is a lead ship, ironclad, one of the first built at the beginning of the civil war, it served as a river gunboat, and it's named for Cairo, Illinois, which is, like the farthest up north place along the Mississippi.

Jen: 00:19:11

And she's basically bombed.

Jen: 00:19:15

,: 1862

Jen: 00:19:17

It's like the first ship to hit a mine, and it's the first ship to ever be sunk by a mine remotely.

Jen: 00:19:25

But everybody survives.

Jen: 00:19:27

They get off the ship sinks in twelve minutes, but everyone is.

Jen: 00:19:31

A crew member survives it, and it sinks so fast and into the silt of the Mississippi river, and it gets below the silt that it's basically preserved.

Jen: 00:19:39

Served.

Jen: 00:19:40

And they dig it up 100 years later, and they're able to reassemble it, and you can walk through it.

Scott: 00:19:47

It was really cool.

Jen: 00:19:48

It's really cool.

Jen: 00:19:49

And they have a lot of the artifacts that they found on board, especially from the sailors that were on board, and some of the big materials like the bell and a pump and things like that.

Jen: 00:20:02

So you can walk through.

Jen: 00:20:03

And they have the cannons.

Scott: 00:20:04

Yeah, it looks like they preserved some of the original wood.

Scott: 00:20:07

Like, whatever was there, obviously, much of it is just rebuilt and recreated, but it was really cool.

Scott: 00:20:13

It's full size.

Scott: 00:20:15

It's outside, so there's a museum inside, but it's outside, so you can actually, when you drive up to it, you see it.

Scott: 00:20:21

It's basically covered by this large tent.

Scott: 00:20:23

And you walk right up and you can just start walking around and kids can run around in there.

Scott: 00:20:28

It was really, really neat.

Jen: 00:20:30

It's really neat.

Jen: 00:20:30

There's only four surviving civil War era ironclads in existence.

Jen: 00:20:33

The monitor, the neuse, the Cairo, and the.

Jen: 00:20:39

Oh, gosh, this is.

Scott: 00:20:40

Go for it.

Jen: 00:20:41

Muscogee.

Jen: 00:20:42

Musk.

Jen: 00:20:43

Muscogee.

Jen: 00:20:46

And so two union.

Jen: 00:20:48

Two confederates.

Jen: 00:20:49

But as we know, with a monitor, it's only preserved underwater.

Jen: 00:20:53

They have a rebuilt one, but they haven't brought it up.

Jen: 00:20:56

And it's off the coast of Hatteras.

Jen: 00:20:58

But this Cairo, to me, is the most preserved that is original and that you can walk through.

Jen: 00:21:05

So if you want to see what an ironclad looked like, and to walk through an ironclad, see the spacing well.

Scott: 00:21:11

And then they had, like, the artifacts from the crew.

Scott: 00:21:15

So that's what's inside the museum.

Scott: 00:21:17

They had the ship's bell and all the little things that crew would have with them on this ship.

Scott: 00:21:22

It was just really neat and surprisingly well preserved.

Scott: 00:21:25

And being able to see a full size, you get a true feel for what the scale of these were like.

Scott: 00:21:31

And you can imagine this thing floating down the Mississippi, shooting the cannons and doing all the stuff.

Jen: 00:21:41

It's just.

Jen: 00:21:42

It's so neat to be on it, because if you see my video, it's basically a steamship, but it's a paddle steamship with two rudders in the back, and they need a ton of coal an hour.

Jen: 00:21:52

So there's men down there with the shovels, shoveling coal into the boilers at rates that's a ton an hour.

Jen: 00:21:59

And then each cannon has six men manning the cannons.

Jen: 00:22:03

So you can imagine the crew on this ironclad, and you can get, like I said, real scale just standing there on it.

Jen: 00:22:11

And you can see the pilot house.

Jen: 00:22:12

It was just.

Jen: 00:22:13

It really was a once in a lifetime thing, and it's there for you.

Jen: 00:22:17

It's all part of the Vicksburg battlefield.

Scott: 00:22:19

Yeah.

Scott: 00:22:19

You don't have to pay extra to see it.

Jen: 00:22:21

And it's right at that Union confederate line.

Jen: 00:22:25

Another really cool thing we saw there is the citation for one of the youngest people to ever receive the Medal of Honor, 14 years old.

Scott: 00:22:33

Wow.

Jen: 00:22:34

So Orion Howe was among the youngest recipients of the Medal of Honor for his service in the American Civil War as a Union drummer boy.

Jen: 00:22:41

,: 1896

Jen: 00:22:51

So he's part of the 55th Illinois, and they're taking bombardment company C, 55th Illinois.

Jen: 00:22:59

And remember, he's a drum boy.

Jen: 00:23:01

So they employ these young boys to play the drums in the Civil War, and you'll hear a lot of drum boy stories, but this time, they're taking a lot of environment, and they're running out of ammunition, and he has to run through enemy lines to get to General Shermandhe.

Jen: 00:23:17

So he's at the northernmore, part of the siege of Vicksburg.

Jen: 00:23:20

That's where Sherman was.

Jen: 00:23:21

And he gets to Sherman face to face and tells him, we need ammunition over with the 55th Illinois.

Jen: 00:23:27

And Sherman is so impressed that this young boy has done this.

Jen: 00:23:30

Not only has he come through and asked for this, but he has gotten shot in the back of his leg.

Jen: 00:23:37

So he's doing this with a musket ball in the back of his leg.

Jen: 00:23:39

So he writes up a citation for him, and he is.

Jen: 00:23:42

Receives the Medal of Honor.

Jen: 00:23:44

So some of the other things that.

Jen: 00:23:45

That you're gonna see, if you know the individual stories, this is a 47 day siege.

Jen: 00:23:56

So there's gonna be individual stories of people who went in.

Jen: 00:23:59

There's some hand to hand combat actions that happen, especially with the Texans, as you can imagine.

Jen: 00:24:03

But one of the cool things is the monuments along the way.

Jen: 00:24:07

And one of the ones we saw.

Jen: 00:24:08

And we're like, who is this guy?

Jen: 00:24:10

Is Lloyd Tilghman.

Scott: 00:24:13

Yeah.

Scott: 00:24:13

So this one was so interesting, because if you're visiting battlefields and you're looking at historical stuff, like we are on fairly regular basis, you see the typical general, whoever it is, on the horse.

Scott: 00:24:26

Right?

Scott: 00:24:27

And there's the.

Scott: 00:24:28

I don't know if it's, like, completely accurate, but it's like, hey, one hoof up in the air, he died this way.

Scott: 00:24:33

Two in the air, he died that way.

Scott: 00:24:34

So you're typically seeing these generals on top of their horse.

Scott: 00:24:38

Right.

Scott: 00:24:38

You know, if they've died in battle.

Scott: 00:24:40

But this one we saw the.

Scott: 00:24:42

It was like the horse rearing its head, and he was standing on the ground off to the side, but holding his saber, his sword, with his arms spread, so almost like he was in this big cross position, like he's either being shot or he's rallying his troops while he's trying to control his horse.

Scott: 00:25:00

It was such an interesting monument.

Jen: 00:25:02

Yeah.

Jen: 00:25:02

,: 1863

Jen: 00:25:11

Because that's where Tilghman dies.

Jen: 00:25:14

And it looks.

Jen: 00:25:15

It's such a motion monument, and it looks like he's being killed.

Jen: 00:25:18

It looks like he's being hit.

Jen: 00:25:20

It actually has a little mark hit on his jacket, so you can see where he looks like he's being hit.

Jen: 00:25:26

Ulysses Grant and the army of the Tennessee pursued the retreating Confederates under Pemberton.

Jen: 00:25:32

And this leads to the siege, because this battle is like, they chase them, and then they start the siege.

Jen: 00:25:38

So this is like the battle that leads to the siege, but this is where Tilghman dies.

Jen: 00:25:42

And this monument is later put up by his sons.

Jen: 00:25:46

So his sons raised the money, his sons put up the monument.

Jen: 00:25:50

So it's just one of those things that it makes me wonder, would we talk about confederate statues?

Jen: 00:25:54

Where do they belong?

Jen: 00:25:55

This is one of those places we wouldn't have even known this man.

Scott: 00:25:59

Yeah.

Scott: 00:25:59

Our attention, really, at the battlefield wouldn't have been called to that specific event.

Jen: 00:26:05

But that monument to him is so interesting, something.

Jen: 00:26:08

I've never seen anything quite like that, that we had to stop and read about him and learn about him.

Jen: 00:26:13

And as we drove on, the very last thing you're gonna see is a statue to Jefferson Davis.

Scott: 00:26:24

And I always appreciate national battlefields that kind of keep all of these.

Scott: 00:26:28

Right.

Scott: 00:26:28

There's no discussion of taking these down when they're on a national battlefield, because it truly is telling the whole story, but it's Jefferson holding the flag.

Scott: 00:26:38

And it's almost like it has this aura of wistfulness, like, he knows it's the end, but it's this kind of heroic pose, almost.

Scott: 00:26:50

And he's holding the flag kind of in his arm.

Scott: 00:26:52

Now, the flag's not unfurled.

Scott: 00:26:54

It's.

Scott: 00:26:54

It's.

Scott: 00:26:54

It's wrapped up a little bit, but it's.

Scott: 00:26:56

It's in his arm.

Scott: 00:26:57

And to me, it gave me that impression of, I know this is the end.

Scott: 00:27:03

And not only because it was at the end of the driving tour, which kind of gave part of that, but because, like you said, Vicksburg was so vital to the war, and when the union took it, that was essentially the beginning of the end.

Jen: 00:27:22

Yes.

Jen: 00:27:23

And it has so many meanings, like Jefferson Davis career as president of the confederacy basically starts in Vicksburg.

Scott: 00:27:31

That's right.

Jen: 00:27:31

That's where he gets the news that he's been elected the president of the Confederacy at his plantation in Vicksburg.

Jen: 00:27:37

nd then when he's pardoned in: 1868

Jen: 00:27:45

His brother's house in Vicksburg.

Scott: 00:27:46

That's where he spends, I think, his final years.

Jen: 00:27:48

His final years.

Jen: 00:27:50

It's almost.

Jen: 00:27:51

It was just poignant for me.

Jen: 00:27:54

And we end our video there because it is.

Jen: 00:27:57

It's the end of the tour.

Jen: 00:27:59

It's the end of the siege.

Jen: 00:28:01

It's the end of, really, the south having a fighting chance in the civil war.

Jen: 00:28:05

And this is what this man is going to start and end his career as the president of the confederacy.

Jen: 00:28:11

So it really was.

Jen: 00:28:13

That statue really was, to me, like I said, serendipitous of everything.

Jen: 00:28:19

And I really appreciated going to Vicksburg.

Jen: 00:28:24

I never really thought about it before.

Jen: 00:28:25

Like, you and I, Shiloh was something we didn't think about.

Jen: 00:28:29

And then when we saw it, we're like, this is awesome.

Jen: 00:28:31

Everyone needs to go.

Jen: 00:28:32

I felt the same way about Vicksburg.

Scott: 00:28:34

Yeah, I did, too.

Jen: 00:28:34

Like, after seeing it, I'm like, this is something everyone needs to see.

Jen: 00:28:38

This is another of those civil war battlefields that tells a very unique american story, and people should come here and see this and be a part of it.

Jen: 00:28:47

It's there for you.

Jen: 00:28:48

It's part of the National Park Service.

Jen: 00:28:50

And for us, we were really, really proud to do it.

Scott: 00:28:52

Yeah.

Scott: 00:28:53

And it's super, super kid friendly because you can drive around.

Scott: 00:28:57

There's really no, you don't have to worry about them running around anything, and they can just go wild outside.

Scott: 00:29:03

At the visitor center, they have a specific area for kids to try uniforms on.

Scott: 00:29:08

The Cairo museum was really neat because of what kid doesn't want around.

Scott: 00:29:11

Run around like the skeleton of a big old ship.

Scott: 00:29:14

It was.

Scott: 00:29:15

It was absolutely phenomenal.

Scott: 00:29:16

So we highly recommend, if you're going out that way, spend two days in Vicksburg.

Scott: 00:29:21

Listen to our other podcast episode about what you can do beyond the battlefield.

Scott: 00:29:25

So I will link that in the show notes.

Scott: 00:29:26

I will also link both of our videos so that you can see that too, as well as some of the Google Maps locations that you can go visit both at the battlefield and then outside of the battlefield in Vicksburg proper.

Scott: 00:29:45

This has been a walk with history production.

Scott: 00:29:47

Talk with History is created and hosted by me, Scott Benny.

Scott: 00:29:51

Episode researched by Jennifer Benny.

Scott: 00:29:53

Check out the show notes for links and references mentioned in this episode.

Scott: 00:29:56

Talk with history is supported by our fans@thehistoryroadtrip.com.

Scott: 00:30:01

our eternal thanks to those providing funding to help keep us going.

Scott: 00:30:05

Thank you to Doug McLivrity, Larry Myers, and Patrick Benny.

Scott: 00:30:09

Make sure you hit that follow button in your podcast player and we'll talk to you next time.

Scott: 00:30:20

Rick James Graveyard or cemetery one?

Scott: 00:30:28

It was like the Dave Chappelle show.

Jen: 00:30:29

Yeah.

Scott: 00:30:30

What did the five fingers say to the face slap?

Jen: 00:30:35

I know.

Jen: 00:30:35

I do love Dave Chappelle.

Jen: 00:30:37

I do love Rick James too.

Scott: 00:30:38

So good.

Scott: 00:30:39

All right, you ready?

Jen: 00:30:41

Ready.